Capcom Vs. SNK thoughts

Projectjustice · July 21, 2009, 6:06pm

Yea it is, you really need to do your research before stating such claims. Like Az said, at the time the fighting genre was in a downhill spiral. These games werent selling on a commercial level. They were selling it just to this niche community.

You dont have to, go to gamertrailers.com.

KOF12 sprites have taken SNK over 3 years to make.

spudlyff8fan · July 21, 2009, 6:32pm

I should’ve put an “I may be wrong on some of this” foreward on my post.

@original poster: This guy is probably right on his corrections.

Edit: The real answer why you shouldn’t get the Cube version of the game is twofold (again, I may be wrong on some of this). One is the “fixing” of roll canceling. It’s a glitch/bug/programmer oversight/whatever, but it was fairly important at high-level play and it is only there in the PS2 version of the game. The other reason is the EO mode, where all the special and super moves in the game are mapped to the right stick, which is fucking stupid.

The final, non-gameplay-related reason is the fighting un-friendliness of the Gamecube. If you’re playing on a pad, the GC pad is pure garbage. There were no good sticks available for the Cube, iirc. And why get it on the Cube when you can get it on the Xbox, which had a whole bunch of other great fighters?

jasonC · July 21, 2009, 6:40pm

CvS1 was fun. I played that hardcore for a good long while until it died (i.e. when cvs2 came out). It was like the main event at Evo one year too, and then people saw the brokeness of Nak.

Yea cvs1 was more of a zoning game cuz the game was just slower, walk speeds were slower, and you had big damage punishers (ryu combo ending with sweep -> shinsho, zangief supers) which all changed with cvs2.

But when cvs2 came out, it was definitely WAaaay better right off the bat and I still believe is the better game. The biggest reason is because 6 buttons >>>>>>> 4 buttons.

System_1 · July 21, 2009, 8:11pm

I realize KOF XII has taken 3 years to make that game but considering the quality and size of the team it’s not surprising.

this is not the case with cps2 quality sprites. A small team of Keyframe illustrators can create over 500 frames per week. Not to mention the palette swaps and loads of recycling going on. They can go through a sizable roster within a couple of months.

here is a quick comparison of the new impressive XII vs the cheapo 60x100 or whatever CvS sprites.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/snk/images/7/78/Terry_XII.gif

Projectjustice · July 21, 2009, 8:22pm

Unless you have personal experience creating a fighting game yourself, making assumptions with little first hand experience you have doesnt make you correct.

On February 14, 2008; the first gameplay footage was revealed to the world showcasing the new, much larger, higher-resolution pixel art sprites at the Arcade Operators Union Amusement Expo (AOU) 2008. The SNK staff decided to create the new graphics during 2005 and 2006, and commented that they spent more than three times longer developing it than the previous game.[17] A location test was scheduled in April, but it was canceled since SNK was looking for games made by other companies. They mentioned that if they worked for April 2008, they would developed less than 20 characters. As such, they decided to wait more for location test.[4] In March 2009, Ignition Entertainment confirmed they will release worldwidely, the home versions of KOF XII for PS3 and Xbox 360.[3] Shane Bettenhausen, Director of Business Development with Ignition commented that they made the release worldwidely in order to commemorate The King of Fighter’s 15-Year Anniversary.[18]

The game underwent a complete graphical overhaul, confirmed by Nona, artist in charge of the art in the The King of Fighters XI endings. All the sprites used in previous games for over 10 years were dropped and replaced with new high definition sprites. The programmers have stated their intention is to create the “ultimate 2D fighting game”.[17] It was later revealed at AOU 2008 that KOF XII would use newly-drawn 2D sprites on detailed 2D backgrounds. Producer Masaaki Kukino informed Kotaku that the game is one hundred percent hand drawn, there being zero cel shading in the game.[19] The renewals for the sprites were made due to negative reaction from the remake from The King of Fighters '94; the staff came to the conclusion that they had to make new sprites instead of basing them from old versions as they used to make in previous games. Kukino adds that each character took between sixteen and seventeen months to be done by 10 designers together along with Nona who revised them. However, due to the difficulties that it took to make this new designs, there will be only 20 playable characters, the lowest number ever in a game from the series.[4] However in the May 2009 Game Informer confirmed the console versions would include more characters.

Developers of the game commented that their objective was to redraw all of the characters to give them more natural moves and more attractive designs. Due to the time it took to make the new designs, the game will not continue the storyline from the previous games. Due to this there will not be default teams even though some of their characters are playable. However, they confirmed they will finish Ash Crimson’s storyline which started in The King of Fighters 2003 in a future game. Between all the characters that were redrawn, Ash was the one who they worked the most. They reworked his moves and speech to be more consistent with the rest of the cast. In comparison to KOF XI which used different artists for introductions, backgrounds, winning poses, etc., all of illustrations of this game will be made by Nona since the staff wanted to make the draws more united. Although, SNK keeps using the same people for music they used in the previous game, the staff is not specifically conducting it.[4]

In the making of the designs, Nona first made 2D character graphics in dot-pixel forms. The team from SNK then takes Nona’s works and uses 3D software tools to make the first 3D for character. After selecting the moves from each characters, they were all changed to 2D to be used as a base for the finished work. Then, Nona and the staff added details to the original designs such as expressions and more descriptive clothes. Finally, the staff makes fixes to each design to make the ones that would appear in the game. Nona found problems with the new designs since they were much bigger than the ones used in previous titles, noting them to be almost twice as big. As a result, the color palette and the details of the dot-pixels also increased.[5]

Thats the problem with you 09ers, you really think you know it all.

System_1 · July 21, 2009, 8:35pm

wtf are you telling me about XII?

we were talking about CPS2 ALPHA SPRITES, do you not see the difference in quality?

second, I don’t care what the developers say, they will not say there game took a few months to make, because people will think it lacks quality. That is not to say I don’t believe XII took a long time but it wouldn’t be the first time developers ‘selling point’ is that the game was in development for 3-6 years. As if that is supposed to make it better?

and yes, I have developed numerous sprites in the past, I know what goes into making them.

System_1 · July 21, 2009, 8:40pm

by the way

“**Kukino adds that each character took between sixteen and seventeen months to be done by 10 designers together **along with Nona who revised them. However, due to the difficulties that it took to make this new designs, there will be only 20 playable characters,”

lets see 16 months per character x 20 characters = 320 months

LOL… it’s a lot of hype and lies.

and if they mean “1 designer per character” which I assume is the case, that could be understandable, assuming they work extremely slowly or are working on several projects at once.

still, the amount of effort that goes into low rez sprites is minimal.

If capcom paid a few illustrators for a few more months of work to make all new CvS1/2 sprites, it would have cost more $$$ but in the end I’m sure the collab would have been much more successful and it would have longer lasting appeal.

Zu_Ninjaz · July 21, 2009, 8:51pm

My Thoughts on Capcon vs Snk

Bring it to xbox live

I own the gamecube (Capcom vs SNK 2eo)( Is this game better then 1st?)

My Team- Evil Ryu, Bison, Cammy

Projectjustice · July 21, 2009, 9:13pm

Continue being ignorant. The fighter genre was created in 2009.

Viache · July 21, 2009, 9:35pm

They were probably working on some of them concurrently rather than consecutively.

System_1 · July 21, 2009, 9:40pm

I wonder how long SNK will milk the new sprites

probably 10 years

Zu_Ninjaz · July 21, 2009, 9:48pm

This is 09 racism, LOLz

Projectjustice · July 21, 2009, 9:53pm

Not really, he does it to himself. Just look at this thread. You try to help him understand shit but to no avail, its like talking to a a wall. Go check out all his threads.

Branh0913 · July 21, 2009, 9:58pm

Who cares, you’re lucky to be getting any new games from either company. 2D sprites are an arduous, time consuming, and expensive process. You’re lucky SNK decided to stick with hand drawn art. Capcom was like “fuck it”, and went 2.5D. Made a decent that took less than a year to create, and got massive sells as a result of it. Oh and it’s a competitive game staple too, considering it get huge numbers at majors, culminated with 1,000 players at Evo. So the need to stay hand drawn makes no sense.

Let’s be honest, SNK spent 3 years, 3 fucking years making this game. Nothing beyond a few SNK fan boys and other curious people are interested in the game. It will NOT outsell SFIV. Oh and it took probably way more money to produce and create. Do the math, when will you people get the point that 2D handrawn sprites are obsolete. You can make them look really pretty and all that, and that’s pretty cool and all. But it simply makes no sense for company’s to invest loads of money into such a thing.

AYO · July 21, 2009, 10:13pm

Evil Ryu was a console only broken character, fun to play every now and then with friends, but not allowed at a tournament level. Same goes for Orochi Iori, Shin Akuma/Gouki, and Omega shinron WTFBBQ Rugal.

Think this thread just died, we all had our moment then the fighting started, like usual.

JJB727 · July 21, 2009, 10:16pm

I prefer CvS2 even though i suck at it lol. I did enjoy beating the shit out of U.Gay Rugal with Rolento turtle tactics lol.

System_1 · July 21, 2009, 10:16pm

all 2 of my threads?

you remind me of the wii fanboys, completely in denial, who swear by nintendo and think they can do no wrong in light of all the low budget, poor quality releases in recent years.

as for KOF XII, again “oh man it took 3 WHOLE YEARS” time means nothing it is only relative to the size of the team.

KOF XII will not outsell SFIV but that isn’t because it’s a 2d hand drawn game. It is because KOF fans are few and far between.

If Capcom went with an HD hand drawn SF5 or MVC3, it would outsell SFIV I’m sure. But they are a smart company, unwilling to take that risk.

Projectjustice · July 21, 2009, 11:14pm

ulovemikeroch · July 22, 2009, 4:44am

Casiotech:

I am trying to get into CvS, I have some time on my hands and never got into it. I am playing the PSX version so I don’t know how accurate the game is to the DC/Arcade port also have CvS2 for the GC - still have to get into that one as well.

The problem I find is CvS doesn’t feel like a SF game. The sprites look/act funny, the timing is a little off and the animations are off as well. It’s kinda like SvC except I know why SvC sucked, it was a rushed SNK title and they don’t get SF.

This is a Capcom game so I don’t understand why they went in this direction. Instead of possibly using the SF3 or Alpha sprites, they made new ones. Was it to better balance the Capcom characters against the SNK roster?

In MvSF/MvC they use modified SFA sprites so it definitely feels like a street fighter game and everything feels very familiar. I am not saying CvS is bad, it’s actually really great - some of the best 2d backgrounds in any SF game, cool 3d special effects, extremely fluid gameplay, I just don’t feel like I’m playing a SF game - feels like a SF after thought (familiar names, moves and sounds but skewed gameplay) or like a different team developed it or maybe it’s just a bad port.

I also want to know what tier the franchise stands with capcom fans.

yes this is a noob thread, yes i’m a noob, I suck, I get it

So what are you bitching about? You can’t play this game because the graphics of the game look, “off” to you? How do the graphics affect the gameplay of the game itself in any way? They’re two completely different things, to argue that the games graphics are hindering your ability to play the game is just plain stupid. And to top it off, CVS2 does use Alpha sprites you dumb piece of shit. I know most of these points have already been made and the topic probably shifted to how much of a dumbass you are, but at this point you’re just bitching about how much you suck and are trying to shift the lack of skills to something arbitrary, like the fucking graphics of the game. The graphics don’t make a game feel the way it does you fucking retard, it’s the gameplay itself. And how does this not “feel” like a SF game? The timing is off? Are you fucking braindead? I mean of course the answer is yes, but you’re competent enough to come and make a thread on this site, so you can’t be that stupid. But in all fairness, SRK does have it’s fair share of retards who manage to start new threads everyday so I can’t really give you any credit. So if Capcom took an existing game, and made just gave the characters new sprites/skins, and made you play it, while keeping the exact gameplay intact, would it feel “Different” to you? Even though everything else about the game is the same, it wouldn’t “fee” the same? To you, it probably wouldn’t, cause you’re a dumb piece of shit. Guess whose mother gave up halfway during the self-inflicted alcohol abortion?

Rhio2k · July 22, 2009, 4:59am

spudlyff8fan:

I should’ve put an “I may be wrong on some of this” foreward on my post.

@original poster: This guy is probably right on his corrections.

Edit: The real answer why you shouldn’t get the Cube version of the game is twofold (again, I may be wrong on some of this). One is the “fixing” of roll canceling. It’s a glitch/bug/programmer oversight/whatever, but it was fairly important at high-level play and it is only there in the PS2 version of the game. The other reason is the EO mode, where all the special and super moves in the game are mapped to the right stick, which is fucking stupid.

The final, non-gameplay-related reason is the fighting un-friendliness of the Gamecube. If you’re playing on a pad, the GC pad is pure garbage. There were no good sticks available for the Cube, iirc. And why get it on the Cube when you can get it on the Xbox, which had a whole bunch of other great fighters?

Hey, Spud. There is a 6 dollar gamecube to ps2 adaptor that allows you to use sticks or pads for the ps2. Fuck relying on a glitch to save your ass instead of skill, and the ps2 graphics are pixelated, zoomed-in, washed-out crap compared to the dreamcast and gamecube versions…and the gamecube is super-compact and silent, unlike the deathstar-box.