Capcom, The way to Strenghten Guile is

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1661

Yea…
Do you mean easier to just use in practice or easier to win with? Either way…ryu is much much easier. It’s like saying it’s easier to kill someone with a sword than it is with a gun to me really. With ryu you don’t need to worry about what distance you’re at, he’s good pretty much anywhere at pretty much anything. Alot of what makes a character “hard” is your affinity with him also, some characters just suit personality types far better.

I guess…assuming that the ryu player is playing against a very good player, the ryu * might* have to do abit more thinking than a ken player? But even if i said that, it’s going to be easier for the ryu player to win anyways simply because he’s got far better tools, so the ken player still has to think more than the ryu player for the simple fact that the opponent KNOWS what ken wants to do 100% of the time

1662

I’m assuming he means competitively. In that case you most CERTAINLY will have a harder time competing with ken than ryu meaning the learning curve in order to be able to fight competitively with ken is steeper. Somethings wrong with you if you think for a second ken has an easier time competing than ryu.

1663

Competively speaking Ryu is still harder than Ken. A Ryu player needs to know all of his matchups because all of them are going to be played differently. I mean Ken needs to know matchups as well but not to the degree Ryu does. Because Ken is a lot more straightforward his matchu7ps are just about overcoming obstacles so he can rtsd. Ryu objective change based on the matchup. Sometimes he may want to zone someone out, sometimes he wants to get in and play footsies, sometimes he want to rtsd, and sometimes he wants to turtle it out. A lot of Ryu’s matchups tend to go like that.

He is a character who takes a dynamic mindset which is why there are FEW Ryu players out there capable of winning tournaments. He’s a highly specialized character that only few master. You’d be more consistent to a degree just going into tournaments and knowing a few mixups and combos with Ken than with Ryu.

Guile is very much like Ryu in terms of how differently he must approach each matchup. Its amazing how more Guile players fail to see that shotos are not easy to use especially Ryu. But I digress. I expexct to see a lot of people jumping ship to Dee Jay and I look forward to raping all of them with my shitty Guile.

1664

We’re not suggesting that shotos are easy to use in general, we’re just disagreeing that ken is “easier” to use than ryu out of the two shotos.

You just justified as to why it is generally easier to be competitive with ryu than ken, its becayse he’s a dynamic character that he is far more competitive than ken, he has the tools necessary in order to adapt against different matchups, ken does not - that is why it is harder, he is only optimal at a single range, ryu is more overall, complete character, he can handle himself at far and close range, ken’s zoning game is inferior and because of that, the opponent will know this and will disallow you to rushdown where he is at his best. Ryu however can still keep you at bay even at a distance, he is an overall more dangerous fighter than ken.

I’m not suggesting in anyway that shotos are easy to play, but to say that to play ryu on a competitive level takes more time than ken is silly, because kens options are LIMITED compared to ryu, meaning you are forced to learn how to MAKE DO with these inferior moves (pretty much in the same sense with guile), ryu has the answers to pretty much every situation, ken does not, you can’t go into a tournament with ken just with a few combo links and mixups under your belt and expect to last long.

You say you have to adapt with ryu depending on who you’re vsing? That applies to EVERY CHARACTER and every player you vs. You’re suggesting that you don’t have to change your course of play when using ken regardless of who you’re vsing and regardless of who’s playing? LOL

The only thing i do agree with is that in terms of strategy point of view, ryu has more simply because he has a versatile moveset to work with and therefore can adapt to many situations, ken doesn’t, his moveset is focused around rushdown so his strategy is limited simply because his toolset does not really allow for adaptation.

In terms of execution, executing a good rushdown or a strategy with ken is very hard given his inferior moveset, he’s not even that good at what he’s suppose to excel in whereas ryu has a better moveset to work with when implementing his strategies, there’s a higher degree of safety behind executing his strategies thus “easier” so to speak than ken.

1665

You realize you are completely wrong right? I could swear even Ed Ma played as Ken, wait a second who does he play now and for what reasons? Oh yeah Akuma…cause he is better than Ken just like how Ryu is.

As far as you beating Dee Jays with Guile don’t expect to win against good ones. Dee Jay is going to be able to outzone you in every way it looks like. He can spit max outs quicker and faster than Guile so basically he just has to sit there.

1666

What if the recovery sucks on his Max Outs? Never played DeeJay so I don’t know what to expect from him.

1667

Traditionally his recovery has been good on the Max-Outs. I’m not certain if it were slower than Guiles’ ‘booms though it’s a safe bet they were, and a safe bet that this will carry over into SSF4. At the very least his EX Max-Outs look a lot worse than Guiles’ EX equivalent as he takes almost twice as long to throw both projectiles out.

1668

Ok I see. If they were to give Guile the same same LP.Boom recovery for all version of his Sonic Booms, would Dee Jays still be superior in a fire-ball war? I don’t know if Guile is getting this change but I know it’s been mentioned a lot so maybe it happened, so for the sake of the discussion…

1669

If he had unified recovery then yes he would be able to hold his ground in a fb war but if he doesn’t get this Dee Jays will just turtle your face off.

Here is Seth’s commentary on Dee Jay in SSF4 from a little bit back: [media=youtube]wOMpwC3TdLc"[/media]

From what it looks like it seems that Dee Jay has unified Max Out recovery. Dee Jays max outs are also way faster than Guile’s, that hp version looks like its approaching EX SB territory lolol. Next ranbat or next time I’m in Game Galaxy Jason said he is down to teach some ST so I’m gonna have him teach me Dee Jay.

1670

Guile will have unified SB recovery in SSF4.

Unified with Fierce boom.

1671

Lol Or all specials unified recovery with flash explosion, which will make the sagat matchup 10-0 in guiles favour.

He will now be more guile-y

1672

Maxout recovery is slower than SB. It was slower in ST, allowing Guile to backfist him just like he can backfist Ryu/Ken/etc during a matched FB, although it was more difficult to do to DJ. From one of the early SSF4 videos of DJ, he threw a Maxout that was right on top of his opponent as they were waking up. He then tried to do a j.rh kick as they were getting hit by the Maxout. When Guile does this technique he scores a 2-hit combo. DJ wasn’t even close to combo’ing the j.rh after the Maxout. This means his recovery is a lot slower that the SB(which it’s always been). It looked like it was around 10 frames slower or so. Definately faster recovery than a shoto FB, but not as fast as Guile’s.

DJ is going to be very good compared to Guile but he’s still probably gonna suck just cause he’s a charge character in the SF4 engine.

1673

Not to beat a dead horse but Boxer is a charge character as well…and he certainly isn’t to laugh at.

1674

I have to disagree with you Gilley, from the developer commentary video it looks like Dee Jay’s recover on his Max Outs is equal to that of Guile’s in SF4. Seth even said its faster than most sonic booms as well. Also he won’t just suck cause he is a charge character within the SF4 engine he plays a little different than Guile in the fact that he has more damaging non charge moves, his walk speed is waaaaayyyy faster, and he has moves that cover tons more ground than Guile while also having the same defensive options. I predict Dee Jay will be high mid or a high tier character in the long run.

This is a quote from our resident arcade owner Dream Theater:
[Joker, all that stuff is in SUper Turbo anyway, Dee Jay was always a better character than Guile, much safer, better moves, but his ranges are just different. Nothing new that you mentioned about him that OGs don’t know from years ago IMO…Anyone that knows how any of the new characters play from the old games will have a huge advantage.](Joker, all that stuff is in SUper Turbo anyway, Dee Jay was always a better character than Guile, much safer, better moves, but his ranges are just different. Nothing new that you mentioned about him that OGs don’t know from years ago IMO…Anyone that knows how any of the new characters play from the old games will have a huge advantage.)

Since moving here I have begun to take a lot of Jason’s advice since he knows the game far more than myself. Just food for thought.

Jason Vs Daigo SFA3 Zangief vs Rolento, man what a match!
[media=youtube]6v2hsVJv0zk"[/media]

1675

Things might have changed since then. At the time, many (even S-Kill himself) claimed that DeeJay was easily one of the best characters. The game has been in development for some time, and Dee Jay has lost EX Sobat crumple and might have lost other tools/properties we were not aware of. Also, if those that have played the Super pre-code are correct in their observations, then the top tier will be Sagat, Ryu, Makoto, and Dudley, with all characters very distinctly seperate from those four. Dee Jay looks fun, but hopefully Capcom doesn’t shaft Guile too much. I’m not looking to leave the family man.

1676

Best way to improve Guile in my opinion is give him a low sonic boom in SSF4 like Remy had in SF3 (New Move)
also make his flash kick quicker on start up and recovery, please. I love playing guile in SSF HD
but really think they tamed him down in SF4. The same goes for Fei Long, Blanka and E Honda.

Those characters were dangerous in SSF HD but I feel they are only okay in SF4 even in the best hands.

P.S. Deejay Fighter Forever!

1677

Your doubting Gilley’s reasoning of the SB and Maxout? This is guy that puts out the frame data for the game, I think you better just…wait til release to compare, because we don’t really know what Guile can do thus far. Videos and one’s opinion can only lead so far. Just relax.

1678

Dee Jay still isn’t a better Guile. There is absolutely nothing he has that makes him better. He has longer reaching limbs and that’s it. And still I’d say he’s even in the footsies department with Guile, and Guile still may be slightly better. It’s far easier to stuff Dee Jays limbs. He has a fast sweep and slide, but can’t be abused. The only thing I can say Dee Jay has over Guile is a better crossup, and more straightforward rushdown tools. In terms of zoning Guile wins, and Guile has way better defensive options. The matchup in ST was 5/5. There are some characters Dee Jay fight better like Blanka or Dhalsim (though Sim still owns him, but not as bad as Sim owns Guile). But he doesn’t fight Gief or shotos as well as Guile does.

Seriously its just pathetic to see people try to hop on Dee Jays nuts so quick and so hard. Half of you have never even played with the guy for fucks sake. He was really average in ST, and he probably won’t be getting any better her. I think Dee Jay is for more offensive minded Guile players. But to pretend like he’s a better Guile is just absurd. If anything he’s an esaier Guile. Easier does not mean better.

1679

Honda is good in SF4. Really good.

But a low Sonic Boom would do nothing to help Guile. What Guile needs MOST is more damage and a viable ultra. He has neither of those. All we’ve heard so far is improved “footies/normals”. If his cr. Fierce doesn’t get stuffed/trade with shoto j.rh and he has a bit more punch in his pokes… sign me up. But he certainly could use more than that.

1680

Dude they were on the same tier is ST. WW Guile I believe is what you are making comparisons to since he was tops no? I like Guile better but Dee Jay IS going to be a far superior character bet on that shit. Also you don’t know what you are talking about how Sim owns Guile, it’s a 5-5 waiting game matchup, better player wins in this matchup ALWAYS. Scenario- You have a substantial life lead on Sim with 30 seconds left, wtf is Sim going to do? Nada, he can’t do jack but lose. It also works vice versa. You need to get your WW 1991 Guile mind state out of here cause its completely off, Guile doesn’t play like that anymore and it looks like Dee Jay still does hence why he will be better in SSF4. Dee Jay has the same defensive options as Guile and better offensive ones so wtf are you talking about. You completely contradicted yourself within your entire argument: Dee Jay is in no way better than Guile except he has a better cross up, farther reaching normals, he has a fast sweep and slide, and he has better rushdown tools. Do you even read what your write? Sorry man you may have been holding down back since 1991 but I’ll take what Jason has to say over what you think any day.