Syngin already stated it well, but I just wanted to reiterate that c.mp is hugely important to Guile, both for damage and canceling into both of his specials (yes, you can do it from c.lp but almost as strict to time c.lp xx c.lp > c.lp xx fk). c.mp is the only combo tool that keeps down charge, there are loads of pretty slick combos that you can do using Guile that end in boom (low damage, no knockdown, can be followed at proper distance), but very few that end in FK (“big” damage, knockdown to start wake-up games). My main point, sorry for so many words, is that having only 1 frame links into c.mp (ie. fk) makes it a lot harder to do considerable damage when you force a mistake.
I still say since charge characters for the most part have some trouble comboing into ultra and some other things (except boxer obviously) they should bring back charge partitioning. Imagine dash in sonic boom pressure and other things that could come from that. Hell, he might not even need a damage boost if that were in place. I also heavily agree on the last hit of the ultra subject. So many times it looks like it should ko and then you get a little more than sweep damage off of it.
Charge partitioning is totally unncessary. It’s clear that Guile’s current ultra was never meant to be comboed into, but rather serve as a punisher. It fails on that front anyway. Charge partitioning would break a game with no airjumping, parries, or airblock, and Guile would be the main character to abuse it. He’d have a zoning game that’d be impossible to beat. Charge partitioning wasn’t entirely useful in 3s outside of Urien’s unblockable setups, and a few combos. Other than that, it was pointless to have, and parrying made it even more useless. In a game that doesn’t have these universal defensive options, half of the cast is helpless against charge characters.
half the cast is defenseless against gat and ryu atm lol. I don’t think it would break him at all. Also charge partitioning is a lot more important in 3s than you’re making it sound. If used properly charge moves were incredibly deceptive and no offense to you but I do know more about 3s than you last I checked. That shit was vital to play a decent Remy at all. Alex also could benefit from it during certain situations. I’m too drunk to look up the vids for you but you have to know what I mean with your knowledge of basic sf in general. Remember that in this game reversal windows are still huge and mashable and tons of other crap that could be changed about the game. Dash in SB wouldn’t be that much more Op than a kara tiger shot imo. I think it would put him where he deserves to be, near the top with that fucking awesome hair and American muscles!
I’m not going to comment on you knowing more than 3s about me. However, 3s and SFIV and two completely different games. Kara moves have good range, sometimes stupid range, I can agree, but it doesn’t cover the distance of a full dash. Also remember FADC exist in the game, so this could cause even more trouble. Imagine sonic boom, fADC and then flashkick. totally possible with charge partitioning in place. There would basically be not safe way around Guile’s zoning. You would take almost all of the characters out of the game.
Ryu exist of course, but a DP doesn’t have the same lateral range as a flashkick. So dashin DP isn’t nearly as potent as dashin flaskick. It covers too much ground and airspace, and can be fairly safe on whiff too. If Guile was played right with character partitioning in place, he’d be a walking walll than no one could concievably penetrate. The reason Remy isn’t anything special in 3s is because of parrying. If that weren’t around he’d be really beastly. The only way to make charge partitioning in SFIV not a broken mess is to totally tone down Guile’s moves, and that would just be boring.
His moves require charge for a reason, because his moves are REALLY good.
I’ll give you a dollar if you can find someone who can’t sweep Guile on reaction to a straight FK whiff, not blocked, not max-range lk FK block, straight whiff. It’s “Safest” is -33 on whiff. Maybe full screen, but I’d even bet a hadouken could reach him before he recovered.
The horizontal, general area coverage of Guile’s Flash Kick is all well and good and can pick people off from half-screen distance away, this is true, but the issue lies in that unless you hit them -deep as hell- or with an EX variant -deep as hell-, it’s horribly unsafe. And given that the only, truly safe flash kick is when it’s just about -point blank- in front of you, what good is that horizontal range?
I abuse the horizontal range on the FK by doing a lot of ground-based FK fishing and punishing - it’s fantastic other than the obvious recovery problem. I think the FK is an excellent special right up until Guile hits the ground.
Yea, but it WILL exist, so who would Guile players like it to be? Personally, i like the idea of sagat staying at the top, he’s about the msot manageable of anyone i can think being there. He has weaknesses that hurt him right now and they are only going to get worse.
Top tier makoto has me worried, and if ken got top tier it’d be because they buffed him like they did ryu, which would be crazy annoying.
Just got in the spirit of asking because alot of people in this thread didn’t want Guile to get too powerful, i just hope capcom has wisdom
anyone but ryu/c.viper. i can take akuma. sagat i’m kinda on the fence about. he warrants it, due to character build. also, unlike people will have you think, he does take a lot of skill to play to a high standard. at the same time, it’s a horrible match for guile.
i can’t stand ryu anymore. mr " i have links into everything, can turtle well, 10808083 ultra setups to go along with the best poke and the best super in the game". he’s worse than sagat, seeing as you have to play him 19 out of every 20 games online against these smug guys who think they are frickin daigo because they can fadc ultra.
c.viper is just very close to being broken as fuck. luckily, she’s a hard character to use and also has low hp.
of course my choice would ideally be guile. i don’t subscribe to this “i don’t want guile to be top tier because all the tier whores will jump ship”. i used to think like that. then i realised to play any character to a high level takes skill and i need to step my game up. i also realised that i’ll beat 9/10 of them in a mirror match anyways. that’s unless they make guile’s gameplay so different he becomes cheap as fuck, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty unlikely, as is guile actually being top tier.
just remember, some of the most popular characters happen to be guile’s hardest matches. THIS is why guile seems lower down the tier list than he really is. it’s debatable whether those opponents are picked because of their tier standing or just overall character popularity, but i think that ryu/sagat would be still very popular even if they were lower down the tier list. the prime example of this is ken.
in super, i think gief will be easier for guile to beat. i think rufus isn’t as bad a match as i once thought it was. i think it’s pretty near 5-5, though rufus probably has a slight advantage due to ultra setups (similar to ken). if i had to pick one particular character other than guile for top tier, i’d go with balrog. i think he’s very beatable for guile.
Anyone checked out the official character site? Guile’s page is up…and his SH looks WAY smaller than it was before. I know it’s all in the spirit of balance, but it’s called Ultra Combo for a reason. It looks about the way I’d expect a super version of it to look. This is just cherry picking of course, as I still have no clue as to the utility of the attack in actual gameplay, but here’s to hoping.
I dont want Guile to be top tier, just mid tier. I dont want to play with one of the best characters in the game. That’s one of the reason I play with Guile now. I like to work for my wins. Not saying that peopel who play top tier dont, but I just dont like to depend on a well balanced character to win. No disrespect to anyone. That’s why I never played with Gief, Sagat, or Ryu.
This is a lot better. I’m hoping for this too with both fingers crossed.
Yea, even though i don’t main akuma and havent since i picked up this game, i LOVE him as a character and think that’s how ALL characters should be balanced. He’s difficult enough to use that not that any joker can pick him up and dominate, and at that level he’s about mid tier, but once people get good he’s really high tier, having sagat players fear him even as sagat is now. That’s PERFECT.
Picture S tier fuerte, S tier ken? S tier abel? S tier bison? All a ton worse than sagat imo, every character i can think of would be sooo much worse in that position, so i’m all for letting him keep it. I feel you on the ryu thing btw, anytime a ryu main wants to justify themselves they seem to bring up sagat, pretty funny. Whether or not i can beat a viper seems to depend on how precise my airthrow timing is
I realized they could actually do that pretty easily, he could easily become a cross between ryu, sagat and ken. If they made a true Guile, that would ofcourse be S-tier, they’d obviously have to change his gameplay quite abit as we know it. Just toss out some ryu links into an FADC then a guile high kick then an ultra…zone the hell out of the guy for the rest of the round with your booms that do 80 damage…that’d be pretty gruesome. Combined with his fast walkspeed and a top level target combo he’d be a nightmare for other characters to play against
I want about all characters to be middle- to top of middle tier if it’s possible. That way they can compete against ryu/sagat/akuma if played properly but they don’t outright destroy them and they can’t be badly abused. I think the changes i wanted would take Guile to about that level, like how he was in SNK 2. Recognizing that guiles normals and footsies needed to be fixed says ALOT to me about them actually knowing what needs to be balanced, so here’s hoping they get even closer to being perfectly balanced next game