These types of match up charts are typically misleading, not that I mistrust Muteki or Komoda, but since when is every Guile playing like Muteki? It’s incredibly misleading to just post that chart without explaining the fact that it was a smaller test group asking some players who could actually be considered able to skew a tier list like Tomo could back during WW/CE/HF.
yea true that would be way better than fadc i hope they do make him play more like cvs2 guile that would be mad.
Well this was a survey conducted by the best people with each of their respective character. These players have the highest win rates against the best people, and are generally considered trusted sources when it comes to matchups. I know our local Blanka player Shin Blanka says Guile beats Blanka as well. however, I dispute him on this, but that’s what he says. And also some Blanka players like Nohoho and DSP (top East Coast ST Blankas) also say Guile has the advantage. I personally struggle with that matchup myself, and I’m more inclined toward the older way of thinking (where Blanka is one of Guile’s worst matchups). However many credible people have said otherwise. And while I think my ST Guile is decent, I’m definitely no a top player.
Also check out what Yaya and Muteki say about the Dee Jay vs. Guile matchup.
The fact you’re struggling with the match up says it all to me. Tell me how many Guiles other than Muteki are steam rolling DeeJays and Blankas in ST. I don’t use match up charts as a basis for who “wins”, because that’s dumb. That’s why asking top players a question like that, when they’re capable of being at another level is, by and large, pointless if you aren’t already there yourself. Which most of us aren’t. It’s why no one tries to base Ryu’s position in HF based on Tomo without going “it’s Tomo.” I’ve read that match up chart, I’ve also read similar ones for other games. Does that make you feel the Blanka match is any easier? “I should be winning this.” Really? Do you have the upper echelon of reactions, should you play exactly like Muteki plays? Is that who Guile is when you pick him on the character select screen.
As far as match up difficulty goes, yeah, I don’t think anyone’s going to say “Yeah, Guile beats Blanka EASILY.” Which was my point about it being a “bad match” in the first place. Even with that chart, guess what most Guile players still say about the Blanka match? It’s bad/difficult.
I read their thoughts on the match, but I think it’s intellectually dishonest when you start taking a bunch of players who play a definitive player and start going “This is the match.” Did Muteki beating Blanka a bunch suddenly improve your matches against every Blanka you ran into? Does your beating Dee Jay consistently on GGPO improve everyone else’s tournament performance against Dee Jay? I’ve read that shit, but it’s intellectually dishonest to try and bring it up with the fine print of the caliber of players involved.
Why are we referencing to how he used to be in ST. This is SF4, guile is no where near how he used to be in ST and in SF4 this is the worst iteration of guile we’ve had thus far.
I don’t like how branh is arguing that guile can compete in tournaments if played right, thing is that statement can be transferable to ANY character in SF4 - fei long, cammy, sakura, dan and it already goes without saying that you HAVE to play the character right to compete, even in the top tiers.
Yes guile CAN compete, as can everyone else but it is a massive uphill battle for him - its easier to compete with one character with another, all people want is buffs to said character to make him more effective, is that a bad thing? And I still don’t get how you think ken has an EASIER time competing than ryu, sure ken’s gameplay strategy is a little narrower than ryu’s because ken’s not as versatile as ryu - kens moveset revolves around a rushdown style and therefore his strategy revolves around that whereas ryu has a more versatile moveset to be aggressive and zone, but just because ken’s strategy gameplan is limited doesn’t make him easier to compete because his toolset isn’t that effective in doing it.
An actual understanding of what a match up chart represents would do some folks some good. Specifically the guy who just ran in here from the Fei Long thread. You’re stating the lesson to be learned “Anyone can win”, but you don’t really get what that means. Just because I think Dee Jay has a bunch of inherent advantages against Guile, I don’t believe they cripple Guile’s ability to make the right responses and hold his own. Nor do I think that means a Dee Jay player knows what I know about a match before it even starts. I just disagree with Brahn about who has the advantage on paper and where the difficult fight lies. You guys in the Fei Long thread are just throwing out numbers without actually discussing anything, Cosine, and I see it’s rubbing off here. While Branh and I would disagree about how the numbers should represent the advantages and disadvantages a character brings to a match up, I fully support what Branh is doing. Sticking with your character and believing your can fight a good or bad match up. At the end of the day, whether or not we believe Guile or “X Character” he fights wins a certain match, it’s your decision at the character select screen on how you want to compete in this game.
If you don’t like IV, stop playing it. If you don’t like Guile, stop choosing him. I’ve done both, so much better for the nerves.
As far as that match up chart goes, you’ll also note that Dictator is listed as being lower tier than his tournament performance actually suggests in ST (he’s a very good tournament character in the opinion of the Japanese). It also says that while Ryu has an advantage over Chun, Chun is still considered the better character. We’re probably going to be dead set in our opinions given that even these match up charts have inconsistencies like that.
I think there’s a misunderstanding, I’m agreeing with you, I do believe that some character inherently have an advantage over one another and using an argument like “he has the tools to deal with it” doesn’t negate the fact that its a HARD match, that’s what i was trying to get at.
Like what you said earlier, there is said what ifs in terms of guile doing things correctly - there are just as many what ifs if things do not go to plan or if what you expected to happen didn’t happen. If both sides are considered you can get an idea of the risk/ratio - the example earlier of using st.lk on dee jays slide, the risk is a knockdown, the reward is a millimeter of damage.
I do like that branh has character loyalty and is positive about his character however I do not feel he is fully considering the risk if said situation doesn’t come through or if a prediction is wrong as we are only human so it is only normal for a mistake to be made.
Guile is a pretty bad character in SF4. If you’re patient/talented enough, you can win against poor matchup odds. Skill defeats adverse matchups. If you do not like this, switch characters. If you’re winning quite a bit with Guile, your opponents aren’t good enough. 
The End. Good luck in Super, I hope he regains World Warrior status.
Nobody wants that.
Mayber Hyper fighting status, but certainly not CE or WW.
That was not my intention. I just meant to throw in some food for discussion and to show that certain ideas that people take for granted are actually contested by some players.
edit I also took it for granted till I was confronted with this chart and AFOs opinion.
What’s wrong with him getting championship edition status? I like CVS2 better, but what exactly would be wrong with CE status?
I want WW status, i want my jab to have almost the range of backfist LOL
WW Guile… just a tiny bit of his awesomeness is needed to help our current poor SFIV Guile.
Capcom, The way to strengthen Guile is to adjust hitboxes and frames of Guile in his Flash Kick and make its recovery faster for AA lk.Flash kick to Ultra1/2 to be easier and less execution heavy and reliable set up, Cr.Mk (1 or 2 frames faster, slightly more range), Guile High Kick (Speed issue is obvious, need slightly less start up frames), Upside down Kick needs either to be an overhead which links to combo as it is, or it should be faster, leaves the ground earlier ( to gain lower body invincibility ) and additional 1 frame of advantage on hit to make the link slightly easier ( personal adjustment, but can live without the extra + frame).
Or make him CvS2 Guile…
I really dont see how guile is that bad to some of you people.
look at the matchup charts. none of them put him at a massive disadvantage.
What beats guile so badly?
Outside of Sagat, nobody really. But most people here like to whine because they can’t beat some random guy in G1 Championships. I can say Ryu almost shuts him down pretty badly, but I think the matchup is more than winnable.
People also list the following:
Blanka
El Fuerte
Seth
Zangief
C. Vioer
most of those matchups are difficult if you don’t know the matchup. But to a lot of people on SRK that equates to a bad matchup overall.
You’re forgetting Vortex Akuma as a candidate for bad matchups.
Akuma can be a bad matchup I guess. But Guile isn’t the only character who has problems with his Vortex. I think every character in the game has issues with it. Outside of the Vortex, Akuma isn’t too bad. Like most shotos, you have to space him out. And due to his limited health,he generally isn’t going to rush you down for fear of being hit. I’d say it’s definitely 6.5 in Akuma’s favor, but I don’t see where akuma totally manhandles Guile. At least not the way Sagat does.
the guile - gief matchup doesnt seem that bad to me, but maybe thats just because how awful the abel - gief matchup is…
but yeah,
ryu
sagat
c. viper
seth
i don’t know about fuerte and blanka, i’ve never actually played good ones so i can’t form an opinion about the matchup
those matches are way rough with guile, in my extremely newbish opinion.
boxer and dictator can be hard too, but i have a hard time against them with every character so i think thats a personal problem for me 
Fuerte you just have to guess right, Gief is 5-5 just gotta keep him out (match is usually long), boxer is 5-5 just gotta dumb it down lots of st. hp, Dictator I still have trouble with.