I personally see Ryu a lot closer to Guile than i see Sagat. Sure, Sagat is a zoning animal but his slow walk speed onlly really allows him to zone and not really advance.
Ryu on the other hand flows better for me as you can play him a few different ways, depending on the opponent.
I also think that Guile footsies transfer over easier to Ryu as the appropriate distance you want your opponent to be at is similar. One thing that messes me up with Ryu is Abels and Chuns Ultra.
I use lp.sb to bait their Ultras with Guile and the habit stuck around with Ryu…and I eat the Ultra using Ryu 
Well at high level that’s the only way to fight. There are not enough tool to mix-up and your are not going top rush them like you would some random scrub. That’s exactly how I take Sagat fights… just have to poke, sonic and get that small combo out. Its just all you have… wouldn’t say its boring, but its limiting!
It basically depends on how much of his Super Turbo game translates over to SFIV. DeeJay was basically a better Guile in Super Turbo since the only few things Guile had over Dee Jay weren’t really enough to edge him out over a character that had instant dizzy half life combos off of a single cross up and a sonic boom that only had slightly more recovery and arguably a better hit box. His anti air normals like s.MP were basically even better than Guile’s c.HP. If he translates over pretty much as a better Guile you pretty much will be picking Guile just because you like Guile.
I remember reading an article that says the designers of Super Turbo basically built DeeJay to cover matchup issues that Guile and most of the other cast had trouble with (vs. Claw specifically) and well low and behold Guile ended up kinda being overshadowed by the more powerful DeeJay. I hope they do enough with both characters for there to be specific reasons to use Guile over Dee Jay otherwise it’ll turn into a why pick SFIV Ken when you can just pick SFIV Ryu thing.
nono…that’s fair. ryu is a very good comparison too, just some of sagat’s zoning habits really remind me of guile’s in their aesthetic (st.hp for example), whereas i think that ryu is slightly different in that regard.
cool. i was curious about how his normals/anti airs compare to guile’s. i know his slide can cover ground further than guile’s bazooka knee, but does he have a poke with the range that st.hp has for example? guile also has at least six different normals/command normals he can use as anti airs. i’m guessing dee jay doesn’t. i think i heard seth killian said something like deejay was really, really good on the ground. however, he apparently struggles with air attacks and has a slow jump (also doesn’t have an air throw like guile does).
i have a bad feeling that dee jay is going to be about the same tier level as guile is in vanilla (god i hate that word), and guile’s going to be even lower in ssf4.
I dunno if Guile could be even lower…
I mean you can assume that all the new characters will give him a heap of trouble, but all of his old bad matches are going to give him alot less, and that’s WITHOUT knowing what they actually did to Guile and you have to still consider that they considered balance against each character before giving anyone anything that was blatantly broken
Dee Jay isn’t a better Guile. He’s just a more offensive Guile. And his ground game is okay but not as good as Guile since they have comparitively worse recovery and more startup. I think the thing with Dee Jay is that you don’t have to have the same execution and spacing you need with Guile. Many of Dee Jay tools don’t require good spacing or timing and he also requires a lower learning curve. I think Guile is for more advance players. I compare it too Jeffery vs Wolf in VF. Wolf is a strong grappler with a bit faster normals, however Jeff requires better universal defense, spacing and timing.
DJ’s combos were compartively easier too and his AA slide was a great tool too.
The thing is that DJ had all sorts of good hitboxes on his normals too.
I really don’t know where Guile should belong in Super. S-Kill did in fact say DJ’s fuerte is his ground game…that’s were he wants his opponent…everthing else will give DJ trouble. But on to Guile…
We know Guile is not a rush down character, but most play him offensively/defensively at one time…but Guile is not a turtle. I just can’t label him as such in SFIV, because he really can’t do it…that’s why I can’t label him, and I’m not sure many others can either. I don’t know where Guile fits in Super…I really don’t.
As i remember, i never liked DJ because he had really really awkward normals
Yeah from what I remember in Super Turbo, DeeJay’s normals were just as good or basically better than Guile’s. I don’t think Guile had anything other than maybe c.MK that compared to DeeJay’s c.MP. DeeJay had a really sick c.LP as well and both his c.MK and c.HK had solid priority and helped him move forward in footsies and created knockdowns. If you wanna compare CE Guile to ST Dee Jay then yeah Guile would be definitely better. Though if you’re going to compare ST Guile vs. ST Dee Jay, Dee Jay wins pretty clearly. Dee Jay runs into pretty much similar matchup issues to Guile but ultimately has better damage output at close range (touch of death combos basically) whereas Guile does not.
When I used my Blanka against Guile it was pretty much a relatively even matchup where I could easily slide under a bad sonic boom and generally play solid footsies. There wasn’t much reason to be afraid of him other than if I made a bunch of mistakes and lost the health lead. Though Dee Jay is arguably Blanka’s worst matchup on the other hand where all of his normals do a pretty good job spacing out everything but the most max ranged spaced of my normals. Blanka’s slide can’t even go under DeeJay’s slash fireball correctly without optimum spacing. You time it slightly wrong at all and you stand up into the fireball. His s.MP was insanely quick and quickly shut out any air attempts from Blanka along with carnival kicks. I just don’t remember Guile punishing anybody in matchups that hard in ST like DeeJay did. Especially not on top of a much more menacing up close game.
Funny that Brahn brought up Wolf vs. Jeffry in VF because in the latest VF game Jeffry is like the best character in the game easily.
AA slide was decent. Again his footsies wern’t really that good. No matter what the skill level of a Dee Jay was he was almost never played liked Guile. And noticed his game almost never revoled around his ground game. There were too many chracters that destroyed him on the ground like Gief and Honda. And Guile generally had more ability to stick out than Dee Jay. His zoning game was definitely was worse and maxouts had limited applicability besides matching fireballs and allowing him to close distances. Dee Jays game was essentially about getting close, getting a knock down and busting out a combo. And or setting up a tickthrow. He does have some notable normals like cr.mp but it was nothing you could center your footsies around. Overall Dee Jay lost on the ground for free against chracters with notable footsies like Guile, Ryu, Zangief, and E.Honda. He also was horrid at zoning.
Again Dee Jay is better if you want to be more agressive as he has better jumpins and a really beefy crossup. But it was pointless to play him like Guile would be played. He didn’t have the lockdown capabilities that Guile possessed. Muteki used both chracters and notice he used Guile way differently than Dee Jay. His Guile was very clean and damn near surgical. While Dee Jay can be played a little more sloppy
That’s the ultimate thing about DeeJay though. Even though he is more “sloppy” IMO he is more effective. He has more of a killing intent than Guile does and that’s ultimately where the tiers lie in fighting games. Not in how precise and well spaced you are with your character but just how quickly can they pull a W off of a certain situation and ultimately Dee Jay can pull a W off of a mistake far quicker than Guile can. That was the main reason why DeeJay was basically a better Guile in ST. Guile probably had matchups he had a bit more of an advantage in but when you learn how to take a match entirely away from an opponent off one cross up with DeeJay he ends up being a better character off of that alone.
At least against Blanka, DeeJay could play exactly the way Guile did but pull the win much easier. Even in matchups where DeeJay may have less solid footsies that doesn’t really matter for him much when a cross up gives him a victory.
We don’t really know for sure what’s going to happen in Super with DeeJay but seeing how Guile was far from “dominant” in SFIV I can’t imagine DeeJay being anything but better than Guile even if you don’t want to compare him play style wise to Guile.
I agree with all of the above i want to see it for myself. lets just cross our fingers and hope, guys.
Deejay’s lk dread kick took care of footsies, it knocked down and had lower feet invin for beating low pokes.
His jumping jab was stupid good too.
Devil is right though, in ST one crossup and DJ wins, ST guile’s keepout was the worst it ever had been. That game had shown itself to be a bit more aggressive to.
SFIV guile needs work, I don’t know how good SSFIV DJ will be, but if he’s closer to his ST form then guile was, and guile just gets his shades, DJ probably will be better.
well, seth said he will probably be mid or mid upper.
and as for my man guile, it cant get any worse can it?
The issue here is you’re assuming he’s the same–the two games are so drastically different, for you all you know Dee Jay in SSF4 could be a fuckin’ machine. For all you know, Dee Jay could be borderline retarded and the worst character in the game.
Example 1: ST Ryu to 4 Ryu.
Example 2: ST Guile to 4 Guile.
One got beast ass, the other had almost every aspect of himself nerfed.
Agreed Kich, just stay positive sir.
Guile and Dee Jay don't have the same playstyle. Dee Jay has different normals and a totoally different gameplay. I think its very romantic for people to compare the two but they have almost nothing in common. Thats like comparing any chracter with a qcf fireball or dp to Ryu. Aethetically they may have the same commands but they are applied differently.
Dee Jay didnt beat Guile in ST. It was an even matchup.
As far as matchups are concerned. Well Dee Jay played against Blanka and Vega better. But then again Guile handled shotos and Sagat way easier. I mean Sagat vs Guile was a bad matchup in that game but you were in a much better boat using Guile than Dee Jay because at least Guile had decent spacing and footsies to make things happen in that matchup.
As far as TOD combos are concerned. That was the main issue with ST was that stuff like TOD combos covered up flawed chracter designs. In ST Bison had really good TOD combos. SF4 Bison is based more or less on ST Bison and look at him now. When he doesnt have his one shot gameplan he looks weak. Dee Jay will more than likely have the same issues with being consistent at high levels.
Yeah and tod never decided tiers. Most of the top tier in ST didnt’t have and TOD combos. Ryu didnt have them, Chun didnt have them, Sim definitely didn’t have them but they all sit above Dee Jay an.d Bison on the tier list. Why? Its because each of those characters have consistent gameplans. Hwen they can’t get off shenanigans they still had a really solid game regardless. Ken could kill you way quicker than Ryu could, but Ryu was better overall. That’s how I feel about Guile and Dee Jay
Guile beats Deejay in a a matchup. But Deejay has an easier time overall in some peoples opinion.
I don’t even really understand why you used this as an example of Guile being boring to play. Sim can be really defensive. I seen a lot of long drawn out matches with Sim against all characters. Getting in on a good Sim is hard as hell.