I don’t see why Hakan would be a bad match up. Hakan will have issues with anyone with a fireball and Guile has excellent recovery on his sonic boom meaning if the Guile player is smart and spaces his Sonic Booms properly he can stuff or evade Hakan’s oil slide if he’s able to use that to slide under fireballs. If Hakan does crouch cower in response or FA’s it then it’s still to Guile’s advantage. Hakan also has a low jump so he’ll have issues dealing with Guile much like how Honda has issues dealing with Guile. If Guile is zoning properly than Hakan can’t do a random oil shower without eating some hits. Meaning he’ll have to find a way to knockdown into oil shower and if Guile zones him properly he won’t be able to easily do this. Guile’s overall ground game in SF4 is strong but he needs a bit more priority/speed/damage, a fixed flashkick, and a consistent method to combo into Ultra. Pretty much the top tier characters are top tier because of their normals and ability to combo into Ultra consistently.
The matchup agianst simm is an even mathcup…
The final is not the only round of a tournament.
I will admit that the UK scene is not the biggest in the world, but infexious beat the best sagats, rogs, and giefs in the country to get to that final.
if you get a big opening and can hit tough links, b+roundhouse, c.mp xx flash kick hurts pretty bad but it is a very hard link for a ~350ish damage punish
Yeah Guile is one of those characters that works when you have the right person playing him and putting work into him but he just doesn’t have the tools to be a continually winning character in SFIV. He just doesn’t.
There best punisher for Guile is a cr.mp xx flashkick. It does okay damage, but he has a better punisher st.HP xx flashkick. It’s incredibly hard to get consistently, but it does really good damage for just 2 hits. Guile has a lot of combos but most are one frame links. He has cr.lk,cr.lp, st.lp, st.FP, but it’s only like 270 of damage. It’s probably the best he can get if you can somehow hit confirm his cr.lk which few people can do. He also has a okay knockdown combo, cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp, flashkick. But again this link is HARD to get consistently, and it does less than 300 damage. But yeah it’s good to be able to pull it off when you have the opportunity because high damaging situations are scarce for Guile.
And good stuff on Winter Brawl. Dr. Chaos has a really good Ken, don’t think I’ve ever face on that good. I assume he stil use Ken, and hasn’t moved to Akuma like every other Ken player.
I doubt I’ll stick with Viper once super drop, but I may keep her as a secondary/casual character if I really like the way she plays. But I saw a few matches and I was looking at Magneto-X hands, and I was thinking I need to have that comfort level executing things, and it appears Viper really imposes that on you.
Rufus vs. Guile is slightly in Rufus favor. I personally think it’s 5-5 if the Guile player is just completely on point with his spacing. The problem with that matchup is the problem any other character has with Rufus. He absorbs a lot of punishment, and makes up for it quickly with the smallest opporunities. That makes him an annoying matchup for Guile. I was able to destroy a lot of Rufus in casuals, but I think the ATL Rufus player was familiar enough with my Guile to know ways around him.
Actually Dr.Chaos has beefed himself up lately from the old Ken days now. You were one step ahead when you mentioned Ken players moving to Akuma. :lol: Even back during Evo2k9 I went back and forth with him during Ken casuals and we would go even or he would just slightly edge me out online. Though he used Akuma I believe pretty much the whole way through at Final Round and I think it was a big reason he got second place at Final Round. Admittedly if he used Ken I think he would have gotten docked down earlier. Ken is just too risky to use at high level play when you’re fighting all of these monsters with a shit ton more ultra setups and generally higher damage output. I’ve played against enough solid Akumas where I was basically going to go to a 3rd match against him but I fucked myself over by accidentally doing a HP thunder knuckle when I was going to c.HP him into death combo in the corner. It was a free set up too. Shit happens though and it was a fun fight either way. He’s a very smart player and definitely deserved the place he got.
Yeah it sounds like u just have to make the most out of every opportunity with Guile for punishment despite the execution. Luckily Viper’s punishment isn’t as frame intensive as Guile’s unless she doesn’t have EX meter or wants to save the EX meter. Though if you hit the stick wrong at all you get fucked up just like any other character. Guile not having a non charge based Ultra really hurts him for punishment too. These days I just punish a lot of shit with Viper with just raw Ultra or sometimes just c.MP or c.MK SJC Ultra. Since the damage on the ultra is so high any ways in tournaments I try to just get shit done with the least risk and save her high execution for when she doesn’t have ultra meter. Magneto-X being a Marvel player I’m sure has no problem executing Viper’s shit either.
Yeah Rufus even in even matchups just still has that factor of just being able to come back more easily than his opponent. He easily takes advantage of punishment opportunities better than Guile does. I’m still surprised u didn’t try to get your bracket placement changed so you wouldn’t have to fight someone who’s already had time to adapt to your play style multiple times before.
I don’t know if it’s been said already, but all I want for Guile is for the cr. lp -> cr. mp to be a 2 frame link!
Yeah I don’t think it would kill Guile to have one 2 frame link. Most of Viper’s links are 2 frames and she’s not even as footsie based as he is.
Viper has 2 link’s on most of her stuff? She has near endless shananigan, and has 2 links…while guile only has bare bone aesthetics, and most of his shit 1 fram links.
I hope this is what Seth and the devs hope to fix on Guile’s frames and hitboxes…that’s only half of his problem really.
Just my 2 cents from playing Guile for a little bit but here’s what I would do to improve guile:
cr.jabs easier to cancel to specials. make cr.MP link into itself.
Less charge time on flash kick. Not a lot but enough to get it off a jump in easier.
Flash Kick > Super > Ultra should juggle.
More range on d/f+HK. Make it more like Sagat’s forward round house.
Ultra input changed to QCFx2.
Combo cr.lp from overhead at point blank range.
better upwards hitbox on flash kick at the start of the move.
flash kick launches higher so anti air version can get ultra afterwards like ryu with the right spacing.
What do you guys think?
That’s about everything sumed up in 108 pages. Add FA>Super>Ultra as well. Him and Vega should get FADC as 1 bar, not 2. I never FADC for Guile, unless it means to finish off the fight. EX FK should at least set up Ultra, if it means bring EX FK damage down.
But yeah your ideas sound nice…Capcom won’t let it happen though.
She has lots of trickery, yes. But she has major flaws too. She does not do well under pressure , has some wonky normals (c.mk hit box, range on c.mp, start-up for AA s.hk) and has about a week of start-up and recovery on Seismos (without sjc). Burning kick is bad-ass, but can be focused. Knuckle pressure is great but only from optimal distance. I suck with her (maybe a month of playing her pretty regular), and the learning curve is ridiculous, both in terms of execution and mind-games. But, the first time you hit someone with c.hp xx ex-seismo sjc burn kick to hp thunder knuckle feels pretty fucking awesome.
That’s the thing though. Even with all of Viper’s flaws she is easily a better character than Guile. Just like how Rufus is easily a better character than Guile even with his flaws. Viper and Rufus have specific footsie based issues that fuck them up against the top tiers but I’d rather use a character with shit footsies and a ton of powerful shenaingans, high damage off of any connected hard attack and ways to avoid footsies than a character with above average footsies but shit damage output and generally lacking in scary mix ups or anything that really defines a character close to top tier.
Guile is like Viper without the flash. A ton of work and execution involved and your reward is having to always score plenty more points than your opponent to win. Whereas with Viper it’s more so just still having shit footsies but any big mistake will net you huge damage to put things back in your favor.
Hakan will be ok. I can’t see the wakeup game being as scary as zangief because he’ll constantly be needing to oil himself up to be effective, and Guile players should do well with time. I also think that Guile will be able to consistantly punish better this time around so that means forcing mistakes will have more of a reward. I can see how hakan will frustrate alot of guile players, but if you have a solid zoning game and you’re also solid upclose, it probably won’t be all that bad once you learn his gimmicks.
I’m most worried about makoto still. She’s the kind of character that seems like she could mess up Guile even if he was performing properly
lol it seems everyone has been trying out viper recently (i have been for the first time ever too). i can’t figure out for the life of me how you connect an air burning kick after ex seismo/super jump…but i’m getting there i guess, hehe.
she does have some similarities, but i’d say sagat is more like the top tier version of guile. if i can figure out how to consistently do his kara tiger shots (i already got kara knee/uppercut down), then i might use him some more in ssf4 too. i know he’s been nerfed, but surely it’s not going to be like he’s mid tier all of a sudden, is it? lol.
I personally still see Sagat being pretty good in Super. He’ll probably be at least where Rufus was in the regular SFIV. He may actually have a matchup or two where he has trouble now which there’s nothing wrong with that considering how well off he was in the original game.
If you can’t figure out for the life of you how to connect an EX seismo after a burn kick then you are gonna have to sit in training mode for a long while. That’s basically Viper’s c.MP to flash kick. :lol:
Makoto is going to be a force to be reckoned with for several characters I think.i came really close to hitting it a couple of times, i’m playing on a dpad, lol. i’ve been told that trying to use viper on a dpad is not a clever idea. i think i’ll get used to it though.
deviljin, i know you love sf2/super turbo ect, so maybe you’ll be able to answer this for me. i’ve been thinking that guile players will be able to get used to using deejay pretty quickly, right? what matches do you think he might find easier than guile and vice versa?
I completely agree.
@ Wikum, the way I learned it was just doing about 652,000 seismos and SJC toward the opponent without trying to do the burn kick. After I had that consistently I started throwing the burn kick in there. Just don’t use lk version to start out.