Capcom, The way to Strenghten Guile is

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Didn’t i talk about the links? I may not have, but i did list a good many things

If you did i did not catch it.

**That’s another way of saying there should be a damage buff for certain things. And about them doing the same damage, i’d say that was wrong.

Ryu’s close light does 30, guiles does 20
Ryu’s close medium does 70, guiles does 60
**Close hard punch is 100(80) to guiles 100(70) **
Close medium kick does 70 to guiles 60
**

Yes Guile should get a damage buff. Its not fair that 1 frame links deal so little damage while a something like cr.mp - cr. mp - cr.mk xx EX Haduken does quite bit. I dont know much about Guile, but I’m sure Vega’s BnB do more damage.

Guile’s cr.lk does 30, Ryu’s does 20
Guile’s cr.lp does 30, Ryu’s does 30
Guile’s st.lk(far) does 40, Ryu’s does 40
Guile’s st.mp(far) does 80, Ryu’s does 80 (can be used in a combo Ryu’s cant)
Guile’s st.hp regardless of spacing does 120 and it can be comboed into it.

**There’s more but i don’t want to take up too much space. I know they can’t see into the future, but now that we can prove something is wrong, something should be done yes? Especially when as you said, ryu has more attack options and more special moves, more everything really, why does he need better normals? Try as i might i can’t find a justification for this so it should be fixed. **

Something usually is done. Look at Akuma in SFST 2 then look at CVS 2, and SF4. Ryu always had good everything. He is one of oldest character in the series so Capcom has had more time to perfect him than any one else other than Sagat. Be assured that Capcom will do another good job and balance the game even more. Even though they will do something as stupid as nerf Sagat

And when the opponent gets hit they don’t need to worry about anything because they don’t get knocked down like they do with the other people who have more damage? This is one reason the sagat match is 7-3, if this knocked down it’d enable guile to get in easier and the matchup would improve.

I dont think that will make the match up any better. What mix up game on wake up does Guile have. Guile needs stronger normals, a damage buff to justify 1 frame combo’s, and remove the auto guard so SRK spamming kids take a gamble and put them selves at a 50/50 where both parties can benefit from counter hit combo’s.

I haven’t heard anyone complaining about the range of ryu’s normals, but even sagats normals have range issues as i was told by emblemlord earlier today. Guile used to have better reach on his normals, like he should, because for one he depends on them, ryu doesn’t need yet another advantage, especially when we can see so many disadvantages that other characters got that mysteriously passed over him. Hitboxes need to be abit more balanced and make abit more sense really.

1.You said," Not sure why characters who are supposed to be smaller have better reach(ryu)." Reach in what? Im assuming you are referencing normals.

  1. Those advantages where not given to Ryu. What happend was that they were not given to Guile. Why does Gen/Sakura/Abel/Akuma have a nasty reset game, while Vega/Guile/Rose dont have a good one. Because Capcom thought that they did not need that, because they excelled in other area’s. Advantages are not given but taken away when you try to balance a game. If Vega did not have invul frames to projectiles on ST/RCF, Guile would be 9-1 match up because there would be no way out other than Ultra. And relying on Ultra is not a good base plan for a character.

  2. Those animations for SF 2 characters have been in use for a long time. You cant fix hit box issues in this game because they are using 3D models where the hit box is the character. There are still some glitches in the system (include random whiffs, etc.), but im sure they will be fixed especially for my character. But at the same time this does not mean that FK is going to be given priority. That does not exist any more. Flash kick wins in the first 3 frames after that any move with the correct angle on hit box should stuff it. Wanting 1-2 more frames of invul is fine with me, but just because the move has the word special does not mean its an exception and cant be stuffed with a well placed move. Its all about the spacing people the last thing i want in my SF 4 is Psylocke type AA assist bullshit. In fact one of you guys posted FK should not lose to lazy jump ins. Maybe its the other way around. You are the one’s being lazy and relying on priority when in fact you should learn to time FK so it wont get stuffed.

So that should change yes? I take sooo much for me to knock ryu out of his cr.mk to fireball, i can’t just do it in my sleep so why can he do it so easily? That might be a safeblock thing also, but either way something needs to be done. Heh, he could even knock me into ultra when he’s supposed to be at a disadvantage, how is that balanced?

Its not fair and its something the develops missed. For a game that many people say that was rushed with 24 characters and its this balanced, small things like might not get caught and then get exploited by people creating bull shit shenanigans. But things should get better if Capcom does not give the shaft to characters like Sagat or Zangief who are considerd “top tier”. these two take an unusual amount of skill to be beastly with, something you dont see in other games.

**
So i only have two special moves, and both got nerfed, but i also have to use a bar to do what they can do normally while they have so many other advantages? And i think EX has 5 invincible frames.**

They did not get nerfed. this nerf is an unetentinol side effect of using 3D characters. Play Soul Calibur to see how real 3D animation and hit boxes work. Sonic Boom never knocked down and Flash Kick was beastly in other games because the hit box was a giant box that was plastered on the frame of the character’s move, and that is what gave it so much “priority”.

**Amen, but that doesn’t mean his specials also have to be among the worse
**

His special dont work in this system as well because they have little reach and FA punish a lot of pokes. If you want to give him better normals they have to be able to link on the same scale as Vega’s. I swear Vega can link almost anything, but they are 1 frame links no biggie for me, but for others :nono:

Guile needs a boost, but what boosts? We cant give him to much to break him, but enough to deal with new character strats. Balancing is a tough issue and there will always be low tier.

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Yea… try that one vs Gief.:tup:

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I lose to Giefs for reasons other than getting crossed-up every second or so. If you lose to someone who’s just spamming body splash, you just need to anticipate it and punish accordingly (ie, use bazooka knee trick, s/c.HP, FA->Dash, etc) and reset the match.

My gripe with Gief is not his crossup, it’s my inability to make mistakes during that match. Gief doesn’t play the range game, and because of his health, the sonic boom-game is basically nullified. Guile needs to be as close as Geif to do damage, and in that range, Gief is an unstoppable monster.

So you essentially have to play with pokes, (as well as agitating him with weak-ass booms that he can completely avoid with lariat) to win the game. My secondary is Viper, and she suffers from the same things Guile does in that match up. You have to play so unlike your character to get a win, every normal you throw out is a chance for you to get punished. Geif (and soon, T.Hawk) is a pretty hard counter to Guile. :\

Both of those characters need a better way to deal with wrestlers, either that, or their stamina needs to be brought in line.

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guile always had good normals. in this game it sucks… hard.

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Fucking LOL. This thread turned to shit pretty fast…

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I don’t know how people can say Guile still has good normals in this game. Okay, Guile does have good normals, but Guile needs extraordinary normals. With only 2 special moves, Guile’s should have the best footsies in the game. He doesn’t. Guile’s normals are running neck and neck with shoto normals, and losing to many of them. Did you guys play some of the other games? Anyone who can honestly say Guile’s poking game is where it should be has never played CE or HF Guile. Guile’s cr.mk is a fucking tragedy. Guile can’t buffer half the shit he was able to buffer in ST. And by buffering I mean buffering into sonic booms. In ST Guile could buffer a boozka knee (a gamble in this game), b.RK, b.mk, and light jabs. In this game only light jabs are his safe way of closing the distance and creating space.

Ryu gets a meaty as fuck hurricane kick, Sagat gets a buffer ass tiger knee that can be kara'd.   Then of course there are other issues that are just overall issues with the game like being reversaled out of everything by scrubs mashing on DP and messiah kicks.

Basically, Guile is okay because of his normals.    But to be honest with you, it never feels like Guile is doing the damage he should be doing.  Guile has to work for singular pokes.  You would think those would do damage.   I mean Rufus normals do so sick buffer as damage, plus he has mobility, plus he has ways to combo ultra, plus he can leave you in block stun forever, plus he has chip.   I mean that's not balanced.  On paper, Rufus is fucking way better than Guile.

I mean let’s look at characters who existed before SFIV though. Balrog is still brain dead. He get’s a cr.lp that stuffs almost everything. The only way to avoid it is to be out of it’s range, but then he gets a damn near free jump in or dash punch pressure. Oh and his headbutt has all this fucking range and has a crazy angle, and it juggles into an ultra. Now I know it does no damage when comboed into, but he get’s you in the corner for free. But Guile didn’t need anything, but Boxer get’s this? You know, the same boxer who has been a menace is previous games.

I mean, Capcom wanted Guile to suck. We can say it was just a few bugs and they probably couldn’t anticipate how he would turn out. but is there any justification for nerfing some of his most reliable pokes, making his spacing tools weaker, making reversals easy yet giving him one frame links? I mean I can take this excuse for Chun and Ken, because it looks like they could be better characers and there were clear oversights keeping them from being better. It seems like they just wanted Guile to suck.

I know what makes Guile works. I’ve used this character for nearly 16 years. SFIV Guile is a major fuck you to Guile players. Let’s hope they redeem him this time around.

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I see it all the time

Throw a sonic boom

Opponent does a predictable jump over sonic boom

Guile does air throw

air thrown character falls right through thrown sonic boom

Let them hit that sonic boom! It’d look sick!

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The Branh has spoken. :china:

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After reading player feedback, Capcom decides to put Remy in the game to show ungrateful Guile players that it could have been worse.

(I kid)

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When people say “nerfed” are we comparing to ST? A game that plays completely different and is mostly a poking game. If so, then most of the cast was nerfed. Balrog is no where near as good as ST Balrog, Sagat is top again, but not as good as O.Sagat. Sim, Vega, Chun, Guile, Ryu are all not as good as in ST. My exception would be Gief and maybe Blanka.

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this is actually a serious one…

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Capcom, give him back his WW fs.lp and we’ll call it even.

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You have no idea how well sonic booms work against Gief. Sure, they don’t do a shitload of damage, but nobody said the matchup would be easy. Little by little his health will eventually disappear.

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Another random idea for Guile:

Give him a long jump option.

Motion: Tap F, UF or just UF, F

You know, in the same way that Zangief has a short jump option.

This would allow him to have his SF2 dominant air RH kick range back, in a sense, by having him travel faster towards in the air. Maybe could speed up his slow sonic boom a bit to balance out the new powers he’d have. Could be a fun addition, could be broken, but I like it.

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that’s also why your argument is null and void.

“because guile sucks and ryu is pretty damn good”…very mature statement.

moving on, the reason people are unhappy with sf4’s guile is because he used to be a total badass. he was the original combo machine ffs! he seems to be one of the only characters who has continuously gotten worse since the street fighter 2 series. vega is another.

am i saying he sucks? is he totally unplayable? hell no…i love playing as guile. are there obvious, unfair faults with the character that need to be rectified? yes… his stun is one that straight away hits you in the face as being unfair.

let’s put it this way…if all you guys who have been ryu/sagat players since '91 saw your main go this far downhill, would you not be screaming from the rooftops that he needs some improvements? who was one of your biggest rivals on sf2? guile.

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i never got the reasoning behind why his RH is so slow in this game either.
I mean akuma gets that bad ass one, but guile can barely go fast enough to catch a cold.
But yeah, they did want him to suck in this game, and mission accomplished.

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My fucking god, the level of entitlement complexes in this thread is approaching 9000.

“HE HAS THIS SO WE DESERVE THAT!”

Using other characters as justification to buff yours is borderline retarded.

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Yes Guile should get a damage buff. Its not fair that 1 frame links deal so little damage while a something like cr.mp - cr. mp - cr.mk xx EX Haduken does quite bit. I dont know much about Guile, but I’m sure Vega’s BnB do more damage.

Not only that but i was saying increase the 1-frame links to 2 frame links so that certain people can’t knock me out of my own combos to an ultra.

Guiles cr lk does more damage than ryu’s? Nice, that’s a good start

I dont think that will make the match up any better. What mix up game on wake up does Guile have. Guile needs stronger normals, a damage buff to justify 1 frame combo’s, and remove the auto guard so SRK spamming kids take a gamble and put them selves at a 50/50 where both parties can benefit from counter hit combo’s.

That’s a step in the right direction since Guile gets killed at a distance trying to get in. Sagat doesn’t rule against Guile in close and you can hit him with EX booms fairly easily, so if they knocked down then that would improve the matchup because he couldn’t keep you out nearly as well, same with ryu actually. I still agree with what you said however

**Those advantages where not given to Ryu. What happend was that they were not given to Guile. **

Yea i guess it just annoys me because i can’t think of a single negative thing that happened to him, even sagat has troubles with his ranges needing to be buffed, believe it or not,but that’s another topic.

I didn’t necessarily ask for more invincible frames, I just asked why they can go through fireballs with regular specials but i can’t. I’d moreso want the hitbox to be changed so that it’s as good as other anti-air specials. I don’t have a problem with flashkick being stuffed most of the time, except against…ryu.

I can stuff sagat regularly, even his notorious dropping elbow, i can’t think of other characters i have trouble against that i’m even supposed to have trouble stuffing like zangief,rufus,blanka,balrog but ryu can stuff me randomly and then i have to sit through a combo, knowing that i can’t combo him back.

And it’s not just the “priority” of the move it’s the absolutely insane recovery, does anyone else have that amount of recovery time for their anti-air? I’ve tried to punish ultras and had less of a window than someone does with a missed flashkick.

**Guile needs a boost, but what boosts? We cant give him to much to break him, but enough to deal with new character strats. **

Yea i support reasonable buffs to other characters too because believe it or not, i don’t want Guile to be too high a tier because i don’t want alot of bandwagon followers picking him up, that’s why you don’t hear me complaining about crossups other than the whole “auto-correction” thing that keeps you from doing it against shotos.

The boost with guiles normals coming out faster and doing more damage while having range restored, his combos being easier to use and harder to knock someone out of, his flashkick hitbox being improved,and his sonic boom doing more dmaage are significant. Combine that with a decent ultra and we’re pretty good imo. The nerfs, whether or not you want to call him nerfs, are all that needs to be corrected, and we only need half of them corrected since there were so many

**Using other characters as justification to buff yours is borderline retarded. **

So was saying that Guiles normals are better than ryus normals, ESPECIALLY with no evidence at all. Not only that but you justify the existence of things that are clearly broken using some pretty retarded reasoning also. “Yea it’s totally ok that this move can be used atleast 19 different ways, does hundreds of damage, is easy to charge up and you can toss it out randomly and then your opponent is at a disadvantage, that’s totally balanced because it’s a super…and noone else can do that.” Between you and the other guy who calls himself TrO11Y, guile has a great ultra and better normals than ryu. Gee, wonder why he isn’t doing better.

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How else would you balance a scale without properly portioning weight by relation?

I think SRK forums should require all posters to use a “Listen” button before posting. With this feature implemented, people would have to hear for themselves, just how stupid their posts sound.

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Oh god you’re one of those… “I want Guile to be good just not so good that people flock to him.” – If he has the tools to properly win, he will become significantly more common.

Look, you don’t seem to get this. If you touch…anything…at all, you fuck with -everything- about a character. Normals faster? Maybe 1, 2 normals at most should come out faster, Crouching Forward and Standing Roundhouse; other than that, he has a very fast crouching fierce punch.

Have you ever thought that, perhaps, Ryu actually just needs to be toned down so that he can’t combo 3 medium normals together or a series of light punches into a sweep?

Unlike adding frames of hitstun or removing start up frames to make a character’s 1-frame links, as both of those fuck with the entirety of the character simply creating new 1-frame links that weren’t previously there–removing frames of hit-stun from some fairly ridiculous moves like Ryu’s crouching medium punch. That shouldn’t be able to link into itself, it into a medium kick…whatever, that’s fine, that’s at least somewhat reasonable for a combo oriented character (the other heavy combo shoto’s can do this as well).

If you’re being knocked out of your combos, then you’re incapable of 1-frame links, which is entirely your fault.

Yes, other people DO have that kind of recovery on their anti-airs, in fact, outside of Light Punch Shoryuken, Ryu’s Shoryuken’s is greater (-36/-39 for mp/fp respectively, compared to -33/36 to Guile’s forward/roundhouse flash kicks). Most anti-air moves that lift you off the ground have horrendously high recovery. Gouken’s Tatsumaki, all Shoryuken’s, Rose’s air command throw, Flash Kick, all leave you outrageously open. Perhaps if you weren’t 12 you’d get that.

I provided evidence; you can’t compare two characters normals, they’re used for different things. Is Chun-Li and Guile’s crouching fierce comparable? No, not at all, and unless you can universally compare them then comparing two is illogical and pointless. My point, and again, perhaps if you weren’t -quite- so stupid this would have come to you, is that you can’t say an apple is better than an orange, you could say that one apple is better than another apple. You need to look at it from the objective perspective, “What is the point of this normal, does it do it’s job, if so how well?” – Guile’s normals for the most part do their job very, very well. So do Ryu’s.

Maybe if you weren’t a whiney little high schooler who can clearly -barely- play the character, you’d have better insight as to what he actually needs and you wouldn’t be hell-bent on making him like Ryu.

“Yo guys we should be like Ryu, we need another Ryu clone, why doesn’t Guile have a tatsu to close distance wtf? I can’t FA fireballs, they should nerf fireballs, omg why can’t Guile be gud lol”