Great post, I agree most people are just being hostile smartasses. I guess that’s deserved by the OP to some extent, but there’s no rule saying that srk can’t be nicer than absolutely required by the forum rules.
Anyway, here are some reasons that there should be 1-frame links in the game:
[LIST=1]
[]Being good at the game requires good execution and a good feel for the other aspects. The idea of spending time in the training room and then taking that skill to do better in matches probably appeals to most players (otherwise they’d be playing a different game genre).
[]Camcom probably wants the above dynamic to hold true at all levels. As in, it makes sense that no matter how good you are (except maybe the very best in the world) you can still improve both in execution and in other aspects.
[]Given that execution needs to be challenging at (almost) all levels, links are better than raw speed. At least links are about precision and timing and not just moving the joystick as fast as possible and getting carpal tunnel.
[]If execution were easy, it would be easier to switch characters. Another aspect of the game that’s proven successful is that most players can only be good at one or two characters. If it were easier for everyone to get good with the whole cast the game would be less interesting.
[*]Finally, hard execution can obscure some of the shallower aspects of the game. Players already complain about Ibuki’s vortex for instance—it would be argubly worse if anyone could do that after playing the game for 15 minutes.
[/LIST]
It seems an execution barrier as well as a strategy/reaction/knowledge barrier is fundamental to the idea of a fighting game. I think players are reacting so negatively because to them the idea of removing the execution barrier is almost like an insult to the idea of a fighting game. The final justification of an execution requirement is that it makes the game more fun than it would be otherwise.
But mrmkl raises a good question, how high should the barrier be? If the hardware of the next generation of consoles allows it, should the game sample inputs at 120fps so we can have 0.5 frame links?? Arguably because of point #2, execution should be more like a curve than a barrier—at any level of play execution should be a factor but not the sole factor in winning. I think SF4 does this reasonably well. As other posters mentioned, you can do fine at lower levels without any 1-frame link combos, and even tournament players will occasionally flub a link or option-select or whatever.
Fair enough and yes I totally agree with you in that going out and meeting people offline will help this guy a bunch. At the same time, actually taking the effort to get out and play with people, gain experience, and talk to local players he would discover this on his own and discover why his suggestions are flawed. He won’t necessarily be able to understand my (and other’s) argument without that experience.
So, OP
find some local comp, learn from them, study up, and grind out training mode. I guarantee if you do this 1-frame links will become 2nd nature to you
These two posts.
Realtalk: if the internet was not around today, all you folks wouldn’t be complaining because you’d still be mashing those SRKs.
The internet has just made people salty because of online play and the casuals recognising the ‘cool’ stuff that higher level players use (and don’t use).
Here’s my honest opinion about any game series. Players WILL have gripes, that is a given. In competitive games, practice is necessary. SF is not an easy game and has been thoroughly analyzed by players to allow for the best play possible. You won’t make anything better by crying to capcom. A game does not need a patch because it may be too difficult. There were no patches to the cartridge based games to make them easier. My opinion still stands on all new games made today, they should not ever be patched unless a more serious issue is prevalent(such as save corruption). Just because you can patch does not mean you should. PC games aren’t patched because fans complained, they are patched to fix glitches.
Waitwaitwait. Let me get this straight. You want this game to have an EVEN EASIER execution boundary? Are you joking? If I were to simply compare SSF2 Turbo to the Current SF4. The reversal window in SF4 is like a million frames. The reversal window in SSF2 Turbo is one frame. In SSF2 Turbo, you can actually fail to complete a combo just because your jumping attack isn’t low enough. To cancel into super, you have to use rekkan canceling (e.g. qcf cmk qcf punch) instead of easy shit like cmk qcf qcf super. The fact that you can’t even get 1 frame links and have now resort to complain about it is a clear indication of your scrubiness. Head down to the training mode or otherwise, don’t bother to play this at all.
yeah. Sorry about that. I think it’s qcf qcf cmk immediate punch for ryu to cancel cmk into super. though, you have other variations where you have to cancel guile’s medium punch with his super, which is pretty damn hard to do…
Its not an opinion, its a fact. Reversals and counters in ST/HDR/HF required you to piano and time more than anything. In fact, I’d say that good reversal abilities separate the decent from the good players in those respective games, not counting the basic fundamentals. Trying mashing like nuts in ST, it rarely works and you might eat a big punish ending the round.
I mash intelligently in SF4 because I know it will always work.
I started getting serious about fighting games with Super Turbo. I played the hell out of that and learned every characters’ moves, beat arcade mode a ton and played friends as much as possible. I played until I got blisters on my left thumb multiple times from qcf/dp motions. Then I expanded to 3rd Strike and the Alpha series and figured out combos and how to utilize EX moves and how meter works. I played MvC2 a lot and learn about how to make a team.
By the time vanilla SF4 came out, I had been playing for about two years and I knew all the fundamentals, how to use EX moves, some bread and butters etc. Vanilla was a breeze for me because I did my time on Super Tubo/3rd Strike and Alpha. I learned the strict execution first so the input for SF4 was nothing to me. It helps a lot to work you way up though the series in the order they came out because Super Turbo isn’t as flashy and focuses more on BnB’s over air combos and ultras. It also helps your execution tremendously. You have to do your time and earn it. The rest of us put in our time and you should too. I don’t like how lenient the input is in SF4 because it makes it too easy for scrubs.
People who start with 4 put themselves at a disadvantage because it spoils you with the easy input and comeback mechanics, Don’t get me wrong, I like 4 and Marvel 3, but I still play Super Turbo and Marvel 2 to reinforce my execution and the fundamentals. The input of games like SF4 and MvC3 should be treated as the exception not the rule because if you ever want to play old school street fighter or games like KOF that shit won’t fly,
I just feel like everyone is equal. I guess I’m talking about something different but my example with alpha 2, 3 etc was something to look at. But yea your right about the mashing.
I only bothered to read the first post. I have several friends who were turned off by the execution. On the other hand some of my other friends dropped playing other types of games to play fgs when they found it challenging and loved it. If someone really wants to play and beat you they’ll learn. I know regardless of what type of game it is, if I’m interested and want to play it then I learn it
Let’s see here … I’m programming Ryu’s MK to have 4 frame start up, and +4 on hit. So then, to avoid 1 frame links, none of his other moves can be 3 frame start up. Ok. Then for jab, I will make it 2 frame start up and +5 on hit. No wait …hm …
… ah fuck it … 0 frame advantage for everything and just get rid of jumping attacks all together.
