Another thing people thought alpha counters were bullshit back then. So funny.
You kidding me? Hitting a 1-frame link is like the most satisfying thing in the world.
Yeah, this basically already happened. Plinking isn’t even remotely difficult and it eliminated 95% of 1-frame links in the game.The 1-frame link to fierce is easier than the 2-frame link to jab.
Although even then, not everyone does the 1-frame links. I’m curious how different the game would look if not for that.
id like it cuss im lazy and hate practice, i already got a bnb of 3 2 frame links, i am starting to learn how to plink and i hate practicing.
i guess this is true to.
somebody says this and every time they get corrected with “uh, yeah you can, just program a 1 frame input buffer into the game, then all links are atleast 2 frames”.
This is in the SF4 section.
1 frame links are not hard in this game.
Shut up dude.
It’s not an opinion that execution is more difficult in older games thus making a game that is more difficult to play.(interface with not matchups) I am not talking about subjective difficulty, I am talking about that which can be measured and in that regard it is a fact that older games are harder.
How good you can be at a game isn’t necessarily potentially inclusive of it’s difficulty. The idea that difficulty determines how good one can be is totally subjective and has nothing to do with what I am saying.
You keep confusing stuff like strategy and playstyle with that which can be quantified. The literal physical difficulty of SF4 is far easier than previous SF’s.
Snipped the rest of your reply because honestly it is irrelevant.
but that guys comment isnt exactly wrong. You guys are arguin’ about 2 different things. Yes I agree SF4 is by far the easiest in the series, but his comment was “all SF games have been easy yet hard,” which is exactly the truth. Since a casual player ive been able to enjoy and get into the general game play of every street fighter game(sf2, sf3, alpha, CvS etc) very easily. the difficulty comes with the intermediate to advanced gameplay, like execution, parrying etc… but on a low, non competitive level, you can still easily enjoy and get into those games without those features. hence “easy yet hard”.
Fighting games are hard. All characters should have one button that instantly kills the opponent. Then you wouldn’t have to worry about 1-frame links, character balance, or lag.
Why has this thread not been closed yet?
It’s Pointless
I didn’t say he was wrong (I mean he is wrong about quantifiable elements being opinion), I said I am not talking about the unquantifiable aspects of SF.
agreed…even though in this new era I can see where he’s coming from. I think there should ALWAYS be an execution barrier in SF games. For instance a person with my execution should be limited to what characters I can play until my shitty execution improves. While my boy marlin pie can play with anyone, in any game lol.
im not bashing sf4 but one thing i dont like is the lack of separation. i can switch my main ANYTIME I want in this game because the execution barrier isnt there. I went from Ryu to Abel to Rufus to Yang (4 different character archetypes…minus the dive kicks lol) I still cant roll cancel consistently, keeper-jin, paint dat fence, etc in other games. but with SF4 i can do anything. i still dont believe thats a good thing
You can also do anything in SFII. Barring maybe 3S, the “hard” parts of SF have little to do with execution.
one game comes to mind after reading the OP’s post…
3rd strike… and look how big of a following that game has compared to SF4 sarcasm
too hard to execute basic combos makes the game player unfriendly.
too easy to execute combos and you have a game like marvel. not that there is anything wrong with marvel.
i think SF4 is a great compromise… instead of immediately tearing into the OP’s post. everyone should stop and think about the point he brings up.
that being said. I disagree with the OP’s position on 1 frame links… i think SF4 is fine with them, and they should be in the game. I consider myself to have good execution, and can execute 1 frame links, and I didn’t have to spend a ton of time in training room to be able to do them.
my position is if you don’t like the 1 frame links, don’t try to use them. they are absolutely unnecessary for you to win the match at low and mid level play. you will find doing more basic lower hit combos generally net you more damage reliably anyways. i think the execution barrier should remain in order to separate people who have put more time into the game and want to be rewarded with the little extra damage/stun/flash. I do not think that it should be necessary in order to win matches at low/mid level.
any player worth their salt in ss4 can’t definitively tell me that a guy spending 8 hours a day in training who can execute harder links and doesn’t know shit about the game - is going to beat the guy who concentrates on more basic combos, blocking, matchup knowledge, footsies and fundamentals and has a better basic understanding of the game.
certain matches if played properly can be won without executing a single combo. this game isn’t about combos. it’s about reading your opponent, spacing, good defense, reactions, fundamentals. you DO NOT NEED 1 frame links to win. you DO NOT NEED 1 frame links beat the guy who CAN EXECUTE 1 frame links.
well of course. SF2 started it all. but execution plays a part and the learning curve is soft enough for now imho
I think new players need to realize that in SF execution plays a part in a players overall skill level also. And there is definite satisfaction found in improving your execution. asking for even more leniency than what we have currecntly in the 4 series is going too far me thinks.
No, no. Its not that simple. First off, how would you even program that into a game (not a programmer so don’t know if this is actually possible or not).
The main issue with that though, is that if you program a 1 frame input buffer, everything in the game is also going to have a 1 frame buffer. Throws become easier to teach (or mash out), the reversal window is greater, the window for interrupting strings is increasing (and this is FUCKING HUGE), most likely that would also increase input errors… walk forward hadoken but you get dp comes to mind.
Basically, because you want that 1 frame input buffer, the game changes completely. It becomes even more defensive than what it already is because you have a huge window to try to interrupt with safe, quick normals and throw breaks are even easier.
You can’t just arbitrarily decide you want something in the system to change without knowing the effects it will have on the other parts of the game’s system. This is why people on this site are jumping on you for posting this; you obviously don’t have the understanding of the game (and fighting games in general) that some of the more veteran players have. Personally, it was over a year before I even posted on this site. Lurk, be an information sponge, and learn the game; don’t complain about features until you are more experienced.
And again, it doesn’t get better than plinking; be happy that you can do that
While i dont think 1frame links should be removed, the larger idea hes talking about is a valid and interesting one. Do artificial barriers to entry make the game better or worse? Many game developers are tackling this very issue, have been for several years and across many genres. Jonathan blow, creator of Braid dealt with the issue when creating that game. The concept of having lives, dying and getting a gameover, while fundamental to many gametypes, provided no benefit to the game itself. So why include it? inertia? no, you remove it. he simply implemented a rewind feature, since dying and restarting, was just rewinding the game anyway, but the player had no control. if you have an antiquated notion that doesnt serve to make a better, more successful game, then why include it?
relating this to Fighting Games: what is the core of fighting games? for me at least, its the ability to face off with an opponent, match wits, see who has the better understanding of the systems in place and seeing who can execute best under pressure. I find the mind games and the ability to read your opponent to be the most interesting aspects, but strict execution is also a factor.
But i think its right to question how high the barrier should really be.
which is why a lot of the comments in this thread are disappointing , although this one wasnt outright offensive(which is nice)
It still says to me, “you dont understand, but dont ask questions, just listen to your elders and accept it.”
I agree, learn a much as you can, and take others experience into account. But if someone doesnt have a full understanding, the response shouldnt be to jump down his throat and say" OMG I NEED TO PUT MORE THAN 2 MINUTES INTO SOMETHING IN TRAINING MODE. OH FUCK NO. I’M DONE FOR"
or
"Yeah, you know what every character should have the exact same combo and the exact same motions. And every link in the game is 3frames…er wait, we don’t want anyone to feel left out so let’s make it 5frames for every link. That would make the game extremely deep. Fuck out of here with your fucked up ass logic. Go to Capcom Unity with that shit."
instead of creating strawman arguments and being a general dick, why not engage with someone, help them see your full picture. And while you’re at it, widen your own narrow worldview and try and see someone elses “full picture” too. If the “scrub opinion” is as dumb as you say it is, then reason it away with a line or 2, dont waste the space and alienate new players with your aggressive, antagonistic shit.
It would be possible to code the buffer, but to make it only buffer for 1 frame links would be really complicated. It would have to know the first move and then the second.
It would be easier for capcom to adjust the recovery and startups for moves.
If anyone really entertained the idea.
-trolls suck-