How can you water down SF4?
@Chocobunny: Gems aren’t going to win matches for scrubs. However, if you are fighting a person of your same skill level and they are using higher-level gems, you are going to be at clear statistical disadvantage. I don’t care how minor that disadvantage is, it flat-out shouldn’t be there.
@Spyridon: Doesn’t really matter how over-rated gems are - any advantage that is not available to all players is against the spirit of fighting games. Also, I’d be surprised if we don’t see combos and set-ups that are only possible with certain gems down the road, especially Speed Boost gems.
And yeah, while I never could get into SF4, I at least respect the game to a certain extent.
@Graphf: I feel pretty sure that gems will get the ban hammer with TOs. Some might adopt some sort of gem policy with limited allowances, but I’m sure most just don’t want to even deal with the headaches.
Ranked Match, however, is going to be useless for those who have no local scene and want to prepare for tournaments. I’ve always played tons of Ranked Match in my games-of-choice to prepare myself for tournaments, as it’s really the best thing I have, but that would not be an option in this case.
Do they even allow you to ban gems in Player Match? I’ve only played the game locally, so I don’t even know. Somehow I doubt it, hence your “like minded people” comment - when you have to basically make your own match-making list because the in-game match-making won’t let you fight folks who will play the game ‘the proper way’, you know shit is fucked up.
Just so you know, I do think the game is fun. (Although it still feels really clunky - I don’t know if I’ll be able to get past that.) I enjoy the game and I look forward to seeing all the characters I actually care about in August or whenever. However, doesn’t matter how much fun the game is, I have my principles, and I don’t want to contribute to the pay-to-win-ification of fighting games. God knows I’ve left other competitive/community-driven games for similar reasons.
simplified controls =/= watered down…again…misconceptions everywhere.
what made SFIV popular because it was simple yet had things that required execution…how is SFxTK watered down if it has more options, then its predecessor? o_O
'cept you’re not paying to win. The new gem packs are free. Only the pre-order gems were paid for, and they suck.
And even then, what exactly was simplified aside from super inputs? The introduction of chains? Which have limited use outside of tagging or using EX moves?
Are ALL the gem packs going to be free? If so, then no problem. If not, then problem.
I am not talking about controls, I am talking about the core game itself.
Weak anti-airs, easy combos for massive damage, weak throws, easy mode wake up, etc.
The strength of each option is greatly decreased.
Yes. It was announced that all nine new gem packs are free.
Weak anti-airs? Please explain. SRKs still work, are still invincible, Juri, Dhalsim and Guile still have godly AA pokes, armored moves now cover this situation as well. You can always use the best anti-air and block.
Easy combos for massive damage? Even SF4s biggest damage combos are childs play. Nothing has been really changed here. Supers still do the same damage (about 300~350 depending on character), this is really no different to SF4.
Weak throws? You get that one.
Easy mode wake up? Please explain this also.
I was a decent player in SSF4, and regularly beat A-players. Looked forward to SFxT, but…
It’s just not fun to play competitively!
SFxT caters to abusive character combinations, cheesy comboes and tactics, to the point where it’s no longer fun. When I choose characters that I’m having fun with, I’ll loose to some endless juggle combo. When I play with some cheesy shory-spam character, I’ll win, sure, but it’s just not fun.
- With competitive games, there’s actually a point where too much customization and too many options ruin the premise of a balanced game. As much as I enjoy playing around with combos and finding my team, I’m saddened by the fact that SSF4 is more fun and feels more serious to play competitively than SFxT.
You can argue with me, but it’s my opinion.
It’s not fun.
(BEFORE YOU BASH ME FOR PLAYING ONLINE, I PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS REGULARLY. IN FACT, WE’RE GOING TO PLAY 2v2 TODAY OFFLINE. STILL NOT FUN.)
Reads thread
Thanks basedcapcomgod for MvC3
Exits
It’s your opinion, but opinions can be wrong.
Oh, you’re talking about the 60+ gems that they’re giving away for free.
I don’t think that in any way indicates that ALL the gems going forward are going to be free. If that is the case, then I suppose I would have no moral objections to the game - but I would wonder what the deal was that they wouldn’t have them available from the start.
My guess is that they’re giving away gems, colors, etc., so that they can get people used to using them. After all, everyone loves free stuff, and they’ll use that free stuff as soon as they get it.
Then they start charging for it.
About 5-7 characters out of the whole cast have a good collection anti-airs. If you understand angles you can exploit the bad anti-air in this game. The rest have massively situational anti-air with large blind spots. Jumping is good especially if you got a high priority normal like the body splash. There are only a handful of characters I wouldn’t ever jump in on if I see the right spacing. The only ones that truly scares me are the Shotos and Juri. Even Sim you can get around his AA.
Are there ways to AA? Yea, but it still isn’t enough to deter someone from jumping on you. You have to watch your spacing at all times because your AA is trash in specific spacings.
It isn’t how easy they are to execute, it is how easy it is to start them. Easy hit confirms do what some punish combos in SF4 did. It is almost on the level of MvC3 easy, but at least for the moment you need to actually land a solid hit to get massive damage.
Sure you can make the argument that we got two characters, but I am finding landing a combo is a game changer because of how easy it is to run out the clock.
The problem here is throws were already weak in SF4 and they made them even weaker.
If I have to explain it then odds are you don’t understand.
Anti-Airs seem weaker is because they made Jump ins stronger…if they didn’t do that, the risk for jumping in would be to high to risk, it was something that help balance out the game(its why they have alot of aerial options)
Combo difficulty could range from character to character to be honest, all with their own damage values and such…generally saying this is silly…sure Akuma and Kazuya do tons of damage, but Ibuki and Poison don’t…but their still good characters regardless o_O
throw game is different in this game, in certain aspects its weaker sure(being slow, less active and ranges cut) however knockdown in this game is vastly different then SFIV so making throws weaker offset this, however throws now are better then they were before(past builds), and for certain characters throws are still apart of their game.
Oki as i was explaining before is different, it isn’t easy mode, you still have to guess, you dont get away with stuff for free. Many times i’ve personally punished back tech rolls, and many others have also. quick stand can still be baited, and characters with weak reversals still get bodied hard if their getting rushed down, alot of that hasn’t really changed but fundamentally it’s a different mindset then SFIV and thats a habit people have to break.
the etc. would be on the lines of super jumps and stuff right? only thing i can say about super jumps is that it makes Crossups more effective…like for Ken who already has a good crossup game, they made it even better~ I dont really have a strong enough opinion on this to judge it currently.
I was not aware “this scene” was affected by unbalanced ranked matches in online play.
When Sf4 came out and people were bitching about the loss of sprites, Capcom’s explanation was that they could now easily implement and update new animations and models.
Now we’re already back to copy and pasting entire characters between games, except now they’re far uglier.
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I really like the points you just brought out about not buying the game and DLC’s aren’t going anywhere. It’s just the truth, fucking reality and it’s the way of business now and if I were in this business and anyone else here were too I’m sure you all would do the same fucking thing.Why? Because you’ll get paid the other reason technology makes the entire planet convenient for uploads and downloads and as long as that exist not just Capcom but the other gaming industries will continue to abuse it and people will continue to buy it because they want to play. Prime example Bioshock Series, Batman Series, Lords of Shadow, Resident Evil, they all had decent dlc I bought them and played the shit fuck out them because they were fun and didn’t think twice about money. I’'m sorry people as long as there’s Internet, and software there’s always going to be money to be made don’t like it tough gas is too high walk or take the fucking bus. Again Capcom bringing out 12 or probable more characters for 20 bucks they will fix online problems what the fucks the problem? We all gotta choice don’t buy the shit, you feel cheated play the games you got, the world wont stop turning. Please stop finding stupid ass reasons to hate on shit. We all gotta a choice.
So now you’ve been proven wrong about gems costing money, yet you still hate on gems because of an assumption Capcom will charge for future gems? You’re clearly the kind of person who loves to hate.
Weak AA’s? Every character has an AA. Some AA’s may be weaker due to compensation in other areas (think Claw). Try and name more than 6 characters that don’t have ANY AA options. If you’re complaining that jump-ins are too fast, step your reaction game up. I still punish jump-ins for free
Dude I’m all for the whole anti SFXt movement… but OMG your reasons are sooo sht that its hard to fathom that you are getting any likes.
This game is definitiely not a repackaged SF4. This is truly a new game. The emphasis on air to air being better than AA’s alone is evidence of that. The netcode of this game is highly playable. 80% of my matches occur with sound being in sync for the most part a lil “sractches” here and there but its way better than BS massive amounts of input delay found in games like SF4, and MVC. I think you should be pointing your finger moreso on your router tbh.
“jab jab crossup”? Backdashing does wonders. Have you guys ever stopped to think you havent even begun to pick apart the depth in the game?
I hate capcom and their dealings with this game as well. and Lord knows if I ever ssee seth im smackin the sht outta him, but my reason are legit gripes.
Actually its pretty likely that gems will cost money seeing as how hackers revealed that there are 356 gems on disc and they are only releasing 60 for free, supposedly. So it is very likely the other can cost money.
No no, anti-airs are weaker. Jump ins are about the same. The hit boxes and the hittable boxes in general are much weaker in this game. For instance Akuma’s c.HP while still very good now has a blind spot it didn’t in SF4. Same with Dhalsim’s AA. There are certain angles you can’t cover that you could in SF4.
One of the reasons Ryu is considered a top characters right now is because he still has good anti-air in a game with watered down AA.
It isn’t about how hard a combo is, it is about how easy it is to get damage off a hit. Getting the hit can be hard, but once you get it the flood gates open and this deluge of damage comes along. It was one of the aspects I hated about Marvel 3 was the fact that Random Hit = Death. In some aspects it is better and worse in this game. It is better that they can’t kill your character (Yet) in this game because of SF4 style damage scaling, it is worse in the sense that making up a deficit is turning out to be harder.
Weaker throws means weaker throw traps. It was already hard to open someone up in SF4 when they were willing to block and not push buttons like a moron. I know some players now that once they get a lead they won’t even try to throw tech unless it is obvious. Because between the weaker knockdown and weaker throw, it is less risky to hope your opponent doesn’t go for a throw than it is to tech and get blown up for it
Everything can be baited to an extent, but the wake up in the hands of someone who knows how to use it is downright annoying. I mean you have the choice of rolling and not rolling and even after the roll you have SF4 style wake up options. Wake up in SF4 was already stronger than it had been in previous games. The reason the vortex characters were so good is the fact they were the only ones who could reasonably exploit wake up.
And it isn’t even about the SF4 mindset, it is the fact you combine reversals+invincible back dashes+rolls+quick rise+blocking+weaker OSes and you get a combination of escape options that is hard to account for. I mean most people online haven’t figured out how to abuse the systems in this game yet. Even if you predict the roll you still have to figure out what the opponent is going to do after he finishes rolling.
If you want a good example of a game with a good Oki system try KOF 13. That is a game with a lot of similar elements to SFxT except the wake up is still in the advantage of the player who knocked the other one down. You still have to make reads, but each option has a risk associated with it on wake up. Rolls can be punished by grabs or punished on recovery, offensive options make blocking difficult, and reversals while good are risky and often require a bar to use. Overall the system is much more enjoyable because you have to make calculated decisions and if someone reads you it hurts. It rewards the player for good Oki which SFxT really doesn’t.
Overall SFxT isn’t the worst game, but still I think out of the games out right now it is kind of lacking. Still I’ll play it because I know that is where the pot monsters are going to go.