I get what ur saying about Ryu but either way u look at how u wanna play Ryu he is bad.
As far as old players not coming bk it can be a number of things. Maybe they r just busy with life or they probably just realized like a lot of others that this game just isn’t for them or just got bored of it very quickly. I myself have stopped playing it for various reasons but I will still talk about it and help other out where I can but my knowledge is gonna get obsolete when the new patch drops lol, pretty much just waiting on T7 to come out.
I wait for Tekken 7 too, because I need a second FG besides SF.
I originaly planned on playing GG, but since the upgrade was over 50€ on Steam, I decided not to look at this game anymore.
I just hope Jun gets released for T7 soon, otherwise I will be stuck with Asuka again, well and Yoshimitsu my Husbando.
With the old ones. I saw Olympia in I think the improvemeants thread, where we cryd like a little baby that there is no more vortex and setplay.
I think thats where most of them are burried.
Yeah, after reading a post from @Dime_x on the Cammy method i recently started implementing this strategy. What gets me about this style is the execution lock behind the safe ways to get real damage. Its almost better to just rush that shit down and use your reactions to deal with out of script behaviour from opponents, and let your opponent tell you what they will and will not fall for.
Guaranteed damage:
d: difficulty on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being most difficult
1hc super (33% to 37%), d6 to d9
1hc drill (15%), d10
1hc vtrigger (25% to 30%), d6 to d10
Whiff punish super (33% to 37%), d7
Whiff punish drill (15%), d7
CC dash 2/5lp, TC xx dp (30%+), d3
Unguaranteed damage:
Jump in mixups (0% to 40%), d1
Dash up 2lp mixups (0% to 40%), d1
Dash up 2lk mixups (0% to 40%), d1
Ex divekick mixups (0% to 30%), d4
Vskill mixups (0% to 40%), d1
Its in the lounge thread where you were talking about the ease of winning with Cammy. I dont have the exact post, but below is a bullet point of what you were talking about.
I agree. I bought CVS2 a few months ago for PS2 because it’s considered by a lot of people to be one of the best FG’s ever. It was the first time I’ve ever played it, but it’s hard for me to get into because I can only play against the CPU.
Why am I having so much trouble with season 2 Bison?
-When I get the knock down he’s free and him V-Reversaling is a good thing.
-I can kinda react to his approaching dashes with a buffered stHPxxheavySA to prevent him rushing me.
-Over all the MU seems even and not unwinnable.
But I just can’t seem to understand why I’m losing to certain good Bison players. I can beat just about every other character (besides Dhalsim because I honestly don’t know the MU and have no idea what I’m doing or even understand why I win the matches I win vs him)
V-trigger Bison is a problem, obviously. Hence why him v-reversaling is good. However it seems when he even has meter I’m taking on too much damage and stun. EX Devil’s reverse. Yeah I can attempt to block or spiral arrow out of harms way, but it seems whenever I prepare for it, I get mixed up by his unsafe slide or his EX scissor.
Also, figuring out when my turn in/when to back up or when to challenge is something I’m gonna have to practice myself in training when I get home but any advice in that department is appreciated.
As for Dhalsim I never really learned the MU in season one and am as clueless in season two. So I don’t even get mad when I get bopped. I deserve it. Hell a super bronze Dhalsim could beat me on a good day.
If he’s grounded/spamming slides I can deal. If he keeps jumping around like a maniac/teleporting I can’t deal. He teleports out of my meaty attempts when I get the knock down. Could have sworn that wasn’t a thing? Am I mistiming my meaties? Should I anticipate the teleport and like SA or something?
Most Bison’s play like robots to the point that even if a normal whiffs they’ll still continue the string. Besides smothering him to death and doing cross ups playing ranges that beat those robot tendencies works well. I’ve had success with standing right outside of his cr mp range and using st hk. If they try for F+hp or scissor kick they will be crush countered and you can dash in for a TC combo. I still hate the match up. The best way I’ve found to beat Shin Bison is to end him before he pops.
Now normally I wouldn’t give a shit about one guys opinion, but Chris T specifically asked for this interview (watch the start to see what I mean) so that Capcom could hopefully hear him out on balance changes for SFV (keep in mind this is yahoo e-sports not some no name blog). So in this interview he is essentially saying to Capcom no one is brain dead but Cammy so nerf her normals because we can’t whiff punish them.
In the interview his main complaint with cammy is that st mp recovers so fast that it’s un-punishable on whiff which allows Cammy players to abuse it. He says that if he isn’t frame perfect on his normal to punish Cammys whiffed normal that he will be punished by another normal which essentially isn’t fair as he set up to bait that whiff and punish it.
Personally I think this bullshit, but since two pros are making such a bold statement about Cammy’s normals I decided to look into it more to see if there is some merit to st mp being broken/brain dead.
Here is an image comparing three medium normals in SFV. Ryu’s st mp could have also been used as it’s nearly identical in stats and range as Cammy and Chun, but I figured it would be better to include Ken’s comparable normal since it’s Chris T’s complaint.
I included breakdowns on the right explaining best normal buffer combos you could do at whiffing range as that is his complaint with the move. The most notable differences is Cammy gets pressure on knockdown where as the others do not. Chun and Cammy are nearly identical as they both have to hit confirm and are unsafe on block, but Cammy gets follow up pressure. How much this is worth is debate-able, but it’s something. The other thing to note is the hit and hurt boxes. The fact that Cammy’s is the only one to have her hurt box in front of the hit box states to me Capcom did not intend this move to be whiff punished, but rather beat out by longer range pokes, which makes sense as st mp is more of a frame trap counter hit tool than a ranged normal. In a psuedo footsie match Ken was easily able to out range and buffer into a safe fireball each time I tried to use st mp, but it became more difficult if I added in st mk for him to pull off as the st mk had more range so it’s not just the normal but a combination of normals which is what footsie is supposed to be.
By no means do I think this move is brain dead as it’s really easy to be CC’d by longer range normals (Like Giefs) and you still have to place yourself right to buffer it without accidentally getting a cancel into anunsafe special if you do attempt to whiff punish with it. Both players have to make the right call at the right distance to get the hit and it just seems like Chris T doesn’t know how to deal with it as he is trying to react to a move meant to be pre-empted rather than whiffed punished.
I don’t know what do you think? Is Cammy’s st mp too strong compared to the rest of the cast because it leads into Oki? Other than that I’m not seeing it have much advantage over Ryu’s or Chun’s st mp. I didn’t check every characters but they seem to be nearly identical in startup, active frames, recovery, range, and damage potential. Other than hit/hurt boxes and follow up oki there isn’t much difference. They could technically whiff them just like Cammy does, so I guess they have to be brain dead as well according to Chris T.
Edit: Here is Cammy and Chun’s st mp side by side. Chun’s is one frame faster but overall it looks like the better normal of the two.
So, he is trying to whiff punish a 17f normal in 6.5f of delay. Let him complain, he has certainly earned it.
To be honest the button is kinda BS but Cammy is honest, so…
***Most characters have 20+f total. I don’t recall any medium button being +2/3 oB, +7 oH, +9 oCH with 17f total. Not forgetting pushback buff for s2. Its a strong button up close.
@p1nkt1t5 I don’t mind if someone is complaining. What I mind is how he said just Cammy has brain dead normals. This was literally right after the interviewer implied urien, balrog, and laura were the problems after the season 2 changes. To specifically ask for an interview directed at capcom to balance the game and only mention one character you think is broken, you better have your facts checked. His explanation of why they are brain dead and the analysis of it compared to other characters does not add up. I just spent two hours looking at whiffing and punishing medium punches and there is no benefit to Cammy’s st mp other than oki. To state this move needs to be nerfed because you can’t whiff punish it means that chun’s, ryu’s, and even ken’s mp need to be nerfed as they all have fast recovery as well. You can’t just say Cammy’s st mp is brain dead without stating those other normals are brain dead as well and that’s my beef. If he said all characters normals should have more recovery so we can whiff punish them I’d say cool. That might make footsies better, but to state only Cammy’s normals are broken because of that is bullshit and sends the wrong message to Capcom from a pro player, not to mention to the fans watching.
Why is that button BS to you? I honestly think there is a stronger argument to balance how it works up close, but he said whiffing it so that’s what I looked at.
@SunTzu81 it appears that he spent quite a bit of time trying to whiff punish the button. My point is at least he put in some effort, to actually have something to complain about. Unlike many others who complain about Cammy tools just cause. Though, I lol at the thought of some one practicing whiff punishing that button. Let alone designing setups to whiff punish it. I guess thats why he is a top player.
Kinda but not really BS, mostly due to it being +3oB. And to a lesser extent; I am forced to burn ex meter in all situations to beat the followups. Where as if it was +2, I could make a gamble without losing meter.
I have no idea why one would want to balance it around whiff punishing it though.
I can’t take the opinion of anyone who doesn’t think that Urien and Rog r not braindead seriously. I actually like Chris T as a player but on this occasion I don’t agree with him. Does Cammy have really gd buttons? Yeah she does but then if she doesn’t have gd buttons what do u expect her to do? She doesn’t have an overhead or a command grab to make it easier to open people up, she doesnt have a safe special move to apply pressure, having gd buttons is all she has.
I respect Chris T’s opinion but on this subject I dont agree with him
You just described Chun’s (17f total +3 oB, +6 oH, and one frame faster startup) and Ryu’s st mp (18t total, +1 oB, +7 oH and more range with a better hit/hurt box). There are other normals just as good if not better than Cammy’s but no one is complaining about them. I legitimately tried to find a way to justify it being broken compared to the rest of the cast, but I can’t justify it. That’s why I’m triggered. How can a Pro player make such a strong statement about one character yet I can’t find the issue he is complaining about without also stating all of these other characters normals are broken. Look I can take Urien’s st hp and justifiably show how it’s broken compared to the rest of the cast just like I did with Ken’s air tatsu, but there’s no rational way you can say Cammy’s st mp is broken on it’s own.
The worst part is now I’m starting to see this shit get regurgitated online on reddit and youtube that her st mp is broken citing those sources. That’s the issue when pros say shit like this.
Jump back OS grab tech is used on your wake up when you think they are going for a grab/meaty attack. It basically allows you to tech the grab, block the hit or jump out if they are late on their meaty attack.
But I think you were referring to just jumping back in the neutral or after you finish a block string. Jumping back is usually not a good tactic as you are giving up space. Unless there is a reason to jump back, like if they are trying to cross you up so you jump back and hit a normal to beat their jump in, then you really shouldn’t do it. In most cases for Cammy walking back is usually better than jumping back.
Also jumping back in the neutral signals you are afraid or do not know the ranges of yours or your opponents normals. You should be spacing yourself to be at the optimal position, whereas jumping doesn’t allow for great precision.
Not sure why you care about him running his mouth or the other yahoos. People just like to complain about TT characters. Cammy happens to be the new flavour this week/month.
I don’t think you need to justify anything. Its a good button on a top 3/5 character.
