I am hitconfirming the string st lk, bmp. I am committing to pressing bmp regardless of if st lk hits or not. Also, are you saying that st lk, cr lp string is still close enough to use as a hitconfirm for bmp?
Wow, the tech thread changed into a bitch fight club.
Girls pls.
Necro sees a lot of things black and I had to find a way to solve my problems alone(again),by watching to much Xiao Hai.
I actualy started to DP every fireball I see from this O.O
Necro also didn’t understand that I don’t give a damn if people eat the throw for their favour:
First I don’t have to get in.
Second the throw has awesome corner carry
Thrid if they’re cornerd I still don’t give a damn
and last, I wanted help and not the same: “Oh Cammy is so bad, it’s in their favour!” Sh*t I have to hear here since day 0 of SFV!
Jesus Christ,either you play Theory Fighter or Street Fighter.
Well,i really love the increase of activity in this subforum, so keep bitching pleaase ^^ hahaha,
Also in my absolutley noob opinion, slk is godlike, slk cmp smp cmk, slk grab open people up a lot, im doing it after a jumpin, dash in or a divekick, and i cant react to backroll/quickrise in time, if they do nothing its pretty easy instead, but if they mix their wakeups i ended eating combos in my own meaty
I don’t know why you’re getting so emotional about the fact that I said xiao hai’s offense is heavily tick throw based lol.
It’s just the basic meaty setup. Nash’s v trigger requires you to be 1-2 frames perfect unlike many other meaties
I understand you want to optimize damage from a situation like this but i don’t think it’s a good idea to do this string. The point of st.lk is that due to the low hit and blockstun and the almost nonexistant pushback it makes it great for setting up throws or doing extended pressure.
If you are going to commit to doing a b.mp regardless if the meaty st.lk is hitting or not then you’ll give up pressure on block and might as well do **st.lp, b.mp **on their wakeup.
st.lp, b.mp will hit without it being meaty on counterhit, the end result is the same but you get a teeny bit more damage and it’s way easier to do.
Honestly, you should only do b.mp in a combo if you know it’s going to hit.
I use b.mp in a few situations.
[list]
[] After a j.lk, st.lp
[] After a CC st.hk and i only have either 1 or 2 EX bars or i don’t want to spend the CA
[] After landing a regular divekick and i’m close enough
[] After having only 1 VT divekick left and i either have 1 or 2 ex bars or i don’t want to spend the CA
[] After some VT cancels and the opponent doesn’t have an invincible reversal so i can go for the reset.
[] After a stun situation where scaling is low and you don’t have CA
[*] etc
[/list]
- I used to mess around with meaty cr.mp, b.mp as a consistent way to confirm into b.mp of crouching characters but the counterhit state messes this up and makes it highly character specific, just too much of a headache.
If b.mp had a tiny bit more horizontal range i would use it all the time in combos but that might make it way too good as an AA.
What I’m saying is going from st lk to bmp is putting you at -2. You gave up your turn once they block the bmp. By doing st lk to cr lp, st lp xx you are creating frametraps on all hits and you still have the advantage on block to continue. With bmp you basically have ended your turn and they can hit a button as you are at -2. It’s just less pressure for example if you bmp me as soon as I block it I’m just going to jab as you can’t do anything besides CS before my jab hits you first giving me the pressure.
stLK bMP is bad? Tell that to that one Chun player that I face that wake up buttons Kappa
Seems like a really low damage character when she is pressuring with safe shit.
Why wouldnt you do st.lp, b.mp then if you commit to b.mp afterwards?
Yeah unless she has V-trigger or CA she doesn’t really have higher than average damage. The idea is to use those faster lower damage setups though so that you can condition them to react to those then you throw out the higher damage setups and finish with them.
She can be. It’s very common to find people who refuse to tech so a lot of your damage may be throws.
But towards the end of the round, damage will go up because they have to start teching when stun is high or health is low.
St.lk is an amazing tool against walk back, but the option here is low damage as well.
I played Yang a lot in sf4. I feel like Cammy is the Yang of this game. Safe pressure, low damage. So she might need some time before she really shines
cause st lk, throw is unblockable.
tbh i didn’t see an issue with them fighting cause it still generated discussion/thought. (people have different ideas on the best way to capitalize on knockdowns, both had viable opinions).
your post on the other hand is very “look at me on my high horse”.
so congrats ma’m.
anyway, in response to the argument at hand. i pretty much agree with necro. meaty set ups have inherent value, there’s no reason not to take advantage of them once you get a read. besides, attempting a meaty set up isn’t exactly a true 50/50 on yourself anyway. the reward of landing it right usually heavily outweighs the risk if your enemy uses a different wake up – it’s more of a 65/35 in your favor, and grows more in your favor the better of a read you have on your enemy or the better you’ve conditioned your enemy to simply not push buttons.
[if we’re to be technical here, a 50/50 means that the risk/reward is the same for both sides of the 50/50 in favor of the attacker. i.e. you get roughly the same damage, setup and risk of punishment off of the 50/50, regardless of which “50” you go for.]
THAT SAID, manually timing your meaties is definitely viable though, i’m just not a fan of it. the whole “16f reaction limit” isn’t too applicable to street fighter, because the simple game the experiment (i haven’t read it in awhile, but as i recall it) used to test the reaction speed involved clicking a button the very moment you saw something light up. in this case, you have no idea when the light might show, it’s completely random.
however, in the case of a KD, at the very moment you land a KD, you only have 2 options to consider: quick rise or back rise. if neither are the case, then it’s the regular rise. in any case, you have 3 options that you know for a fact are the only possibilities. not only that, but you can train yourself to identify the rise animation. so with some dedicated lab time, in this situation, you’re so accustomed to the timing, that your reaction timing should be less than 16f. add in adrenaline (i’m pretty sure people playing that simple experiment game weren’t pumped with adrenaline… heh), and it wouldn’t be too surprised if a top player could manually time meaty st.lk’s. i’d still be skeptical as all hell, because that’s quite an amazing feat. but hey, some players are just really fucking amazing.
but again - as soon as you have a read on the opponent’s wake up, put your money where your mouth is: go for the set up because you got the read. you land it, congrats, sick meaty into whatever. you miss it, you eat a cr.lp? at worst: a sweep if your opponent had a read on you going for a set up? in any case, unless you’re going up against a ryu with full meter (or other specific scenarios), the risk/reward is still in your favor post knockdown.
tl;dr
-meaties have inherent value and are powerful if you have a read
-missing your set up b/c your opponent used different wake up usually isn’t too risky (not many optimized punishes out there yet afaik)
-going for a set up is likely in your favor, even more so once you have a read
-manually timing meaties is viable, but will usually be strictly worse than a set up if you got the read right, so go for the set up if you have the read, go for the manual if you’re comfortable with it.
also totally off topic, but i wish they would do something with cammy’s ex dp. i find it very underused (how many people have you faced actually used a 4f safe jump repeatedly?) if you ask me, make ex dp end in a hooligan throw so we can get a half decent set up off of it. (that way, using a bar on it wouldn’t feel so bad)
I use EX dp to go through CA’s when I do not have v-reversal to avoid the chip kill as well as when I don’t have enough v-trigger after a SA to do a regular DP. It really doesn’t have any other place as it’s better to use meter for other things. That being said I think DP has enough utility as is in the current meta but I wouldn’t be opposed to modifying the EX version to be something different like a DP that lunges the opponent down like the hooligan grab does just so it looks different and allows a different setup so we aren’t always doing SA to get a setup. That would make it more of a viable option to use meter for.
Ex dp is great vs safe jumps
right. i forgot about ex DP after a VT SA. yeah, that’s nifty, but… tbh, i’m not entirely convinced it’s worth it? between scaling and how far away your enemy lands… eh… if i’m ahead or my enemy is low on hp or my enemy is cornered, yeah i’d probably invest the bar, but sometimes i’ll just save the bar on a whim. the knockdown from a VT SA is nice… it makes people sweat. i like that.
however, regarding your other point: if you’re able to input ex DP (and don’t forget you can ex hooligan to dodge projectile supers!), you should be able to input any other DP, since all of cammy’s DPs are fully invincible. ex DP’s advantages are its 3f start up and that it’s invincible for 10 frames, as opposed to 5/6/7 for l/m/h, respectively. so unless there’s an odd timing mechanism where you need the extra 3f of invincibility, you’re just ‘wasting’ a bar (but if it saves you from being chipped, i ain’t arguin’)
this reminded me of something else i was thinking of [this is 99% theory fighter, 1% me doing this vs auto pilot bronze/silver players. i would not be surprised at all if you guys think i’m crazy for mentioning this]:
anyone else ever try popping VT as soon as you get it in some match ups? in particular i’m thinking of necalli and chun li. necalli has normal into stomp and chun has block string into fireball, both of which you can mash DP in between. it’s absolutely risky, but to convince a necalli or chun that their bnb block string WILL get blown up by you. that sort of forced play style change can be really useful, especially in highly stressful situations (i.e. tournaments) i mean, obviously, you can just do a regular hk DP, but having VT activated puts that mental pressure on your enemy. it can crack people sometimes. also that opens up the possibility of a second VT in a round, which is just gravy.
and it’s not like popping VT asap is a complete waste either versus those 2. if necalli has the balls to throw his v-skill out, you can easily punish that with a SA on reaction (cause boy does cammy go FAR during VT). and if your reactions are good, you can always punish chun’s IALL with DP (you do 40 more damage in VT w/o any meter investment). there’s also the lovely cr.mk xx SA empty cancel (or buffer) in neutral. and as always, VT divekick is the bomb.
VT DP is also 3f startup, which can be devastating in some situations:
-cammy st.hp is -3 on block
-chun st.hp is -3 on blocks
-necalli lk stomp is -4 on block
-sim st.mp and st.mk are -4 on block
and i’m certain there are others out there, but those are the ones i look for if i can remember.
anyway, the reason why i suggested an ex DP change was because you can’t combo into it after 2 normals, so unless you’re godlike with your single hit hit-confirms… it rarely sees use outside of 4f safe jumps and the aforementioned post VT SA, which just feels lame, considering how vital ex divekick is to cammy’s game plan. still, it’s certainly not the WORST investment of a meter, it’s just something for capcom to hopefully consider when they (hopefully) do a balance patch after capcom cup.
EX DP after VT is totally worth it. The damage is not scaled that bad. I’ve one a lot of matches being able to extend that SA with and ex DP.
Popping a V-trigger out of a combo is a complete waste imo. I’d only expect someone to v-trigger after a hit you were trying to hit confirm but didn’t and popped anyway. Just popping it to pop it for psychological pressure is a huge waste.
I believe they made the ex whiff after two normals because the damage would have been too high. I can’t explain any other reason for this whiffing otherwise.
Seconded.
Ex dp after is very good.