You have better chances to hit nash out of his V-Trigger then the 50/50 from the knockdown. Or you can only meaty someone less then 50% of the time?
Trying to “read” which kind of knockdown your opponent is using is what makes you lose tournaments. Can’t rely on such reads in a ft2, you gotta learn how to meaty. Its not easy at all in this game, but you gotta do it someday.
For example, trying to meaty with stMP is WAY harder then stLK because its 2f slower. crMP is also viable since its 5f and it has 3 actives versus the 4f LK with its 2 active. So yeah, with experience you’ll get rid of those training wheels.
I’m pretty skeptical of anyone saying they’re covering both timings with any real degree of accuracy in a case where you have to manually time it.
It’s easy to get it “mostly” right against wakeup buttons after hk arrow w cr.mp
Make a video of you manually timing your meaty, getting st.lk with random recovery against his vt and against mika ex f.p
10 times each, no editing. I’ll assume you have a life and aren’t going to keep trying until you get a high percentage. Don’t count no recovery. That’s easy.
If you’re looking for b.r you’re likely to mess up q.r because it’s generally not within human reaction time. It’s like a 5fr difference.
Edit:
“Through some simple math, they were able to discern that the average human reaction time of about 265 milliseconds equates to roughly 16 frames in a 60fps game.”
It does. But there is a whole new animation to that kind of wake up, you dont have 5f to react to a backrise… look at the top players, they mostly walk and meaty and don’t use setups that much. But anyways, if you want to put yourself into a 50/50 everytime you land a SA for the upcoming 7 years of SFV good luck on your reads.
“most of the top tiers have setups that cover both wakeups” - PR rog on his stream a few days ago.
That’s probably what you’re seeing.
If you want to do a meaty on QR you have to go for it right away, if you’re looking for backroll, you will inevitably delay it and not get a perfect meaty if they do qr.
We are both guessing. At least with a setup you know you’re frame perfect if you guess right.
Nice, so in theory if i can time my st lk and throw on meaty wakeup:
Throw - 130
St lk + Throw - white + 130
St lk + bmp hitconfirm st hk xx cs - 250
St lk + bmp hitconfirm st hk xx super - 400
So far the only knockdown i can get this to work off of consistently is sweep. Though I haven’t worked on timings for hksa. Its nice though, cause i can start off with the standard setup and use it to get information my opponent. Then make a decision from there.
My only problem is i am forced to a hard commit using st lk. Its downright impossible to hitconfirm block or counterhit. I have to st lk, bmp hitconfirm whatever or st lk, throw. If i choose to st lk on wakeup.
At 6:10 he walks and meaty the wake up button on quickrise. And the result of the combo is another SA that he walks and confirms that the opponent didn’t quickrise so he doesn’t whiff a button “just because it would be a meaty setup in case he quickrised”.
Or at 4:37 when he walks up to follow the body backrising so then he can meaty the stMP.
And pay attention to 1:40 when he meaties a BACKrise with stMP and then beats the following wake up button after QUICKrise. All in the corner where its more difficult to do.
Wtf man, how will you ever know if he waked up with VT if when you meaty him he just get counter hitted?
At 1:52 is possible that got hit trying to VT, but he got counter hitted…
ah dude, you want me to look for a video where a cammy player meaty a nash v-trigger just so you have to believe that its possible to do it? wth, I’m kinda triggered now, look for yourself or keep playing a 50/50 whenever you win in the neutral
If he can stMP reacting to both wake ups to beat wake up buttons then its possible to crLP Nash VT while reacting which wake up he uses. Its the absolute same timing as the stMP, but the jab will beat the VT because its 3f faster. So if you can stMP wake up 4f buttons you can stuff Nash VT with jab since it requires the same reaction.
Either way, just started watching the GLeague pools and started to watch Verloren, which turn out to be a pretty good Cammy. How does he meaty people? Walk up stLK. He even managed to combo counter hit stLK into crMP, which proves that it was completely meaty. It happens at 18:40.
@Yunity Using st lk CH to get a b+mp target combo is a little too hard to confirm. That is why I recommend you do cr lp or cr lk after. If you get a CH those will still combo. Confirming off a st lk is pretty much impossible as it’s too fast to react to and do b+mp is -2 so you give up your pressure.
@Necrotrophic I just read all of that and I still don’t understand what point you are trying to make. Are you saying meaty’s aren’t worth using as you can’t guarantee they will hit unless they are in a setup situation?
@Haztlan “Oh, and meaty fHK is terrible.” Tell that to the Chun’s that eat my f+HK on back recovery all day. That into cr mp xx hk CS xx CA is sooooo much damage. Totally worth throwing away one pressure string if they do happen to block, but shit we all know those Chun’s are still mashing when the pressures on. They can’t help themselves.
I’m saying against moves that require tight timing (Nash VT as one example) you are not going to “react” to backroll and be able to cover both timings with any reasonable degree of success. You are simply going to mess something up because you have 5 frames to react and human reaction is 16 frames.
So what this means is, it is objectively true that frame perfect meaty setups are extremely valuable and should not be taken lightly. Even if you believe it’s a 50% guess, those odds are still going to be better than someone manually timing it against moves that require you to be frame perfect while mixing up backroll and qr, because you can’t actually react. You’re guessing too, and you’re going to have to manually time it. Which introduces more of a possibility of error.
I’m not talking about beating a meaty jab or some slow move.