Calling ALL HDR (West Coast) Players...Don't Let SF2 Die

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
41

This game won’t die, as long as they are making Street Fighter games new players will want to play SF2. I am a new school player I’m 18 and I just started playing Street Fighter less than a year ago. I love the game because its deep and will always push you to be a better player.

But lets face it, this is not an easy game to play and that is why many casual gamers will stay away from it. I tried getting my friend into SF4 when it came out. He played once couldn’t figure out how to do a SRK and gave up never to put the disc in again. He didn’t even try and when I asked why he responded that its not worth learning a 2D fighting game because the learning curve is too high and he could spend his time better by owning noobs on whatever new FPS is around.

Thats exactly the attitude and image that is putting SF and fighting games in general down. People will want to play the game it just will never be in the numbers it once was back in the early 90s. Part of this has to do with the non-existent arcade scene. Something will need to change in order for this game to get national attention otherwise it will always be a niche game.

42

Definitely an interest… I think we had 300 players? I just remember the pools were full and the big stage was hosting some matches. It was just as exciting and if more players played… it would’ve been just as big. I had a lot of fun.

Do you think WCW would learn from that mistake? Because NCR for sure won’t make the same mistake. HDR is definitely present.

Ah good point there.

Just like how the internet (ebay) killed the small (or big box) consumer electronic store… the gaming console killed the local arcade scene.

43

Wow, so many great points and discussion going on in this thread.

I really like Zaspacer’s idea of a StreetFighter 2 myspace/facebook type page…good one Terry! Branching out to other fans of SF2 (trust me there are millions of them out there) is a superb idea. People seem to think of Street Fighter 2 in terms of only “SRK,” which seems to skew viewpoints. When you see the small sections and few posts regarding SF2 related games, it seems to portray an image that SF2 isn’t really “in the mix,” when in reality that is hardly the truth. Case in point, HF had over 2 million downloads on Live Arcade and a majority of that were from gamers from North America. So that’s over 1 million plus individuals who purchased a game they probably already had (on some prior console release/emulation/etc)…sure many of them would claim nostalgia as being the reason for buying the game, but the fact that they spent money on the game regardless of reason means they have some favorable attachment to the game/series. You would be surprised just how many people still enjoy SF2 but are not on or affiliated with SRK, which makes sense when you think about it. If you do a google search of “street fighter 2” srk.com comes up on tenth page and it’s even worse with a yahoo search. The average SF2 devotee will mostly likely have never heard of SRK or any tournament scene altogether. I can’t count the number of times I ran into individuals while playing SSF2 on Zbattle who loved playing SF2 but never heard of tournaments back in the day or of sites such as this. Which brings me back to Zaspacer’s idea of a site that can reach fans outside of SRK (aka the majority). This site is an amazing reference for fighting games, but creating a site that caters specifically to the SF2 fans has the potential to be huge.

SweetJV, touched on a good point regarding the tournament SRK scene. The vast majority of tournaments will reflect the newer games, since most of the tourneys are run by “new schoolers.” Which isn’t a bad thing, but it doesn’t necessarily reflect the entire populace. I guess you could say that’s a call to arms to the old guard to be more proactive. I applaud guys like Silver Rain with the WWL…it’s a fantastic way to get more players involved and create a buzz for the game. I’ll try my best to see if I can get my Tuesday night schedule to work within the timeframe of the league.

Battosai, great points indeed. However, you’re focusing on just one aspect of SF2, the arcade scene. The arcade scene was tremendous for the series, but what further strengthened the popularity of the series were the console releases. You mentioned that HF was the last game to have a huge following of competition…but competition between who? Those who comprised the competition you speak of represented the small niche/minority of SF2 players all around. Not taking anything away from their legendary skill, but to imply that “they” represented the tournament competition when the vast majority of players who grew up in that era (mid 20s and up presently) never heard of these tournaments doesn’t seem like a fully representative sample of the entire SF2 playerbase. In terms of arcade popularity, HF actually killed it…it was way too similar to CE to the mainstream SF2 public + having to pay up to 50 cents more to play essentially the same game (mindset of the non-hardcore Worlds Finest/Golfland) = crazy. I could go further in detail about this, but I don’t want to derail this awesome thread. Keep the suggestions coming people =P

44

I bet real money that MS and Sony will have a system in place to transfer arcade titles to their next gen system.

45

This is going to happen, very soon. When the WWL is fully operational this will be a functional part of our community outreach. Of course this means that people would need to be ACTIVE and wanting to participate… hopefully this will help that.

46

XBox360 plays most original XBox games and some PS3’s play PS1/2 games, so I’m not too worried about that. My guess is that at least one of the next two systems will support it through some backwards compatibility scheme.

Yeah, I don’t see that working. SF4 events basically means any fighting game event these days. I think the key is just making sure there’s time to run everything so all games can run smoothly. WCW was their first effort at running a big tourney. So, I just chalk it up as a learning experience for them.

It actually might be interesting for someone to hold a everything-but-SF4 tourney sometime, just to give all of the smaller games a bit more limelight. I’m sure all the 3S, MvC, GG/BB fans are in the same boat as us. But I could only see something like that working as a one-off special event deal. Any large or re-occurring tourney is going to be a SF4 fest. That’s just the way it is.

Two things:

  1. I suspect all those players bailed on MLG because that’s a shoddy way to run things, not because of the actual money. I suspect that if the tourney payout was 25% of whatever it was and the people were paid immediately that things between MLG and the Tekken crowd would be fine.

  2. I think the only thing having a large pot really does is it entices big name people to consider traveling to the event. If there’s enough, or more, money to cover travel expenses then it’s much more likely for really strong players to travel. For everyone else, I really don’t think the prize money matters that much. If there’s a local tournament, I go as long as I’m not busy. If there’s a non-local tournament that’s pretty big then I just figure out if I can justify the time/money and consider it a vacation.

For instance, I keep meaning to make it out to MWC, but I never seem to have either the time or money to do it. It really doesn’t matter to me if the pot for HDR was $10 or $10,000. I probably won’t take top 3, so it’s really just logistics.

Don’t get me wrong, saying there’s a big pot payout does make it sound sexy. And I’m sure there’s people that think they’ll have a shot at the money when they don’t. But I think most people in our community are realistic about their chance of placing and winning money. Most people go for good times and to try to gauge how much better they’re getting. And so, I think for most people it’s just about if there’s going to be a lot of good players there, and if so, do I have the time/money to go.

With that said, the only places that will have truly big pots are big tournaments, like Evo, Devastation, Final Round, etc. And the only way to get a pot going for HDR at those tournaments are to get a lot of people to sign up. And the only way to do that is if there are a lot of strong local/online tournaments to breed enough players that feel confident enough to enter the tourney.

So, no matter how you slice it, I think the best way to keep this scene strong is to do everything we can to support it at the local/online level. The rest will work itself out naturally.

PS: I too applaud Silver Rain for running this WWL. I’ll try to make it one of your tourneys soon :smile:

47

Tekken 6 and BR were designed on a PS3 based arcade board. Tatsunoko vs Capcom was designed for a Wii based arcade board. Even the Dreamcast had Noami elements in it to allow for easy porting.

48

SweetJohnnyV :china:

49

Sorry. That simply is not so. Companies have gone out of business when they tried putting out a product or service with that mentality.

Same holds true for “If you build it, they will come.”

Those are arrogant positions that usually end up in epic fail.

Advertising 101 states that perception is what dictates the success of a product.

If the majority of players THINK that HDR is done and that SF4 is the future then guess what? That’s exactly what will be.

But! All is not lost. The coolest thing about perception is that it CAN be changed. It is dynamic.

What can we do as a community to help change that perception?
Can we find an angle in which to promote this game in a new light?

The best solutions are the ones that stem from a true understanding of the problem. I think we’re not hitting the nail on the head just yet.

Continue discussion!..

***BTW, just to qualify myself…

I have 20 years of experience in Advertising, Design and Public Relations as a Creative Director. I’ve helped design and launch global brands on many occasions. I am currently an Advertising Design Instructor.

50

By arcade titles I meant anything on XBL or PSN. Sorry, should’ve clarified.

51

This is the gist of what I am saying. Regardless of the reasons, to get the bigger players interested, money or high levels of frame/ recognition need to be offered.

52

Do we need to get the bigger players interested, or do we need to get more players interested. I might not bother going to a tourney if I know I may not make it past my first fight or two.

So getting the pros out to it might put off lesser skilled players simply because the point of a tourney has been traditionally, to win. What’s the point for most people if they know they won’t.

Kind of like what SJV said, I would have to justify the trip especially if I know I’m not coming back in the positive financially although I may have come back positive in the experience/ggs.

53

Yeah of course you need the big name players to actually participate. The biggest thing that HDR has against it is that it has a nearly nonexistent Japanese scene. The Japanese don’t touch HDR hardly ever. Not only is it not in the arcades in Japan but it didn’t even get a regional PSN/XBL release.

Imagine if there was a plethora of videos online of Itazan, YuuVega, Inomata, Nakamura, Ohnuki, KKY, or whoever regularly playing HDR. That would generate considerably more interest. Not having the Japanese is a big kill.

Like other have said also, the timing for HDR was way off. Getting overshadowed by SFIV probably wasn’t the best thing to happen. Even at EVO the 5v5 HDR event was canceled in favor of SFIV. Maybe next year?

This is the poorest attitude. I don’t think the fighting game community wants people who have the attitude of “I don’t play if I’m going to lose”. A better opportunity for anyone to get better is to lose to John Choi in the first round then to beat a bunch of scrubs for first place. And who knows? Maybe the player who beat you will give you advice. Or even play you in casuals later.

The people who refuse to go to tournaments for fear of losing don’t belong in the competitive scene. How else are you going to improve?

1,000 people came to EVO last year to play SFIV. How many are actually good enough to win? Many, if not most, came knowing that they’d lose but they came for the experience. Hardly anyone comes to EVO thinking that they are going to win.

People love going to EVO, or SBO, or X-Mania, or Beat Tribe, or Mikado, or whatever to simply watch the best of the absolute best duke it out. Nothing is more exciting than watching the best competitors go at it in front of a live crowd. If the finals of regional events were consistently a bunch of low-mid level nobodies then the scene would be a weak one. Just having a top player show up for a regional event gives it major credibility.

What HDR needs is to stay alive just like ST did. Once the hype for SFIV dies down then hopefully HDR will be alive and well. For now though SFIV is still overwhelmingly enormously more popular.

54

My bad.

I understand now, and find value in what you were saying.

I still think that top players have demonstrated an interest to play HDR, but for many of them this may very well be because they were already at the tourney.

55

Agreed.
The mainstream left the arcade at HF.
The hardcore left the arcade at Super.

SNES HF and growing disparity of player skills along the SF2 curve I also think hurt this.

I think it benefits from piggy backing SF4 events, however, I think it would do better to have its own system setups and recording devices on which to run the tourney.

Also, as much as I really liked the 2-man team tourney format, I think this MAY create a stumbling block for players to sign up.
Though perhaps people were attracted to the format.

In addition, I think adding in a small prize or recognition for top player with each character would be a bonus.

I dunno.

If the payout was just for 1st, I think a lot of people would expect Afro, Choi, Valle or a handful of others to take it.
It would still be a spectacle, but I think the number of entrants would depend on the convenience of the location, the price for admission, and how deep the payouts went.

If it was an online tourney and it was free, I think you’d get a TON of people.

Great point.

Many players don’t want a game.
They want an interactive experience that rewards them with success for spending any time playing, without any requirement of putting work into it.
And they like that success to be framed as “winning” or at least giving as good as they get.

I would love to explore how players break down in demographics across various criteria.
One of those criteria is definitely the degree of actual “game” (requiring non-trivial achievement/competition their results) different people like in their experience.

Arcades were great for players to showoff their skills to the public and peers.

Now things like MMOs use bling for players to do likewise.

I wish SF had bling to offer. :confused:
I wish a player’s win streak was displayed in the player matchup screen.
I wish players getting a 3 game win streak got that smoke effect bug, and players with a 5 game win streak got the electricity bug.
It’s simply sticking in game elements that fuel desirable player behavior.

True enough.

Look at the game Dune 2.
Same holds true with movies.

Ouch, but true.

How about:
Build it, market it, hype it, hook them, and make them buy into it… and they will come.

56

The “(West Coast)” part of the title should be edited out :wink:

So who’s going to SB4?

I’m going for HDR, and that’s pretty much it. I hope it doesn’t get shit on. Anytime I’m not playing in the tourney and watching finals, it would be nice to just hit up HDR casuals alllll day. Anyone within a few hours should go! And let’s bring setups to run it.

57

I think HDR will survive just fine, everyone just has to realize the reality of the position it is in. It will stay a tournament game and get decent numbers but will always play second fiddle to SF4. It will never be the main attraction but I think it is firmly entrenched as the #2 game at tournies. There’s no reason not to have it at a decent tourney, it is on the same consoles as SF4 so it will cost no extra resources to run and very little extra effort. Plus the pros have shown that they will play HDR at tournies (even if SF4 is the main reason they show up).

And what game(s) would push it out? BlazeBlue has a decent following but I don’t think it is a threat to HDR (people that go to a tourney for SF4 would be more likely to also play HDR than BB). The scene for KOF12 is sadly almost non-existent. Maybe Tekken but the Tekken and SF scenes usually draw different crowds.

HDR will continue be at tournies for at least the next couple of years and will continue to have a healthy casual and online scene. It’s not going to pull the numbers that SF4 does, but really, isn’t a tourney that has 30 very good players as entrants better (and quicker!) than one with 30 good players and 70 more scrubs anyway? LOL.

Edit: I should be at SB4, which looks to have a very strong and large HDR field. I’m worried about the late night Saturday start time, though :(.

58

VF, what’s the point for someone like me to go to a tournament if the experience is outweighed by the absence of any regular offline experience.

I have no community. So going to one event every now and then does nothing for me.

59

I hope if we build it they’ll come. I do agree with VF when he said that SF4 is clearly the giant in the room. Admittedly we have to acknowledge our house isn’t super large to begin with, but even with that said, I think if there is something to be built, that people will draw interest if its run well, and there’s legitimacy.

I completely agree most people go to EVO not to win, because very few actually can, but to enjoy the experience. But like Coth said, without some form of connection to the greater community, going to a single event doesn’t have that same affect.

In terms of whether classic great players will play this game without money, I think that might turn into a chicken or the egg situation, only we know in the beginning which came first. Numbers came first then money. Now that money exists, in other forums, the question is how do we get numbers back, to build money to bring people back into the fold from other forums. That’s part of community building as well. If someone moves into a nicer house, that doesn’t mean they don’t have fond memories of their old home, they still have the memories and the images of that home. If their best friend happens to move into that old home and invites them over, yeah they’ll see that its different, but part of it is still the same. Let’s work on bringing in new players, let’s work on getting people into a centralized gaming community where we can measure ourselves against each other, where we can build that unity and the imagery necessary to bring more people in and as people flow in, then money will eventually come into the picture which will bring more people in, and then the avalanche begins.

I want this to succeed like many others do, I think it can succeed, but this discussion for the future of the game needs to start with what vehicle will its dedicated players use to build itself on to build the imagery necessary to present a public face to the rest of the fighting game community, because this thread while great, simply isn’t it.

60

Ya, people are playing it because all the big names are playing it which gives the game cover, which makes people want to play it. no matter what anyone say’s with out money in the pot at every tournament people wont play it.

Money is what keeps all game alive at Tournaments and, regular play you think that if CVS2 was still drawing a crowd at EVO that they would of dump the game. As long as there’s money in it there going to be plenty of people playing it.

Starts off by the PRO’s or the big names playing it which gives it cover and now people see it on YOUTUBE or GAMEPRO OR G4TV how ever they see it. Then because they see it on TV they believe everyone is playing it so they start playing it which in trun makes everyone play it. I know its wierd but, thats how it works.

Thats why soon im starting off a HDR main Tournament every year thats going to have $1000 aded to just the HDR pot ever year I’m thinking in about 3 or so years it should become a major and of course i’ll have the other BIG name games there like SF4,BB,GGAC,AH2,KOF12 and the other’s its going to be in MIAMI FL, Gril’s, VIdeo Games, and SUN who can ask for anything more