He means st fierce to c. strong
sorry i was using numbers to represent directions. u can link 2 c.strongs together and a st fierce to c.strong. coudlnt be done in vanilla right?
haha my fault, im not used the numberiong ssystem
yes u can link 2 c.strongs togethers
as for s.hp into c.mp, u can do it with feint, not sure without it…
well now u can do it without fient, the timing is strict thought.
You can link s.hp into c.mp in vanilla.
I think its funny, the first day super came out, I was trading cr.mp against ryus shoryus all the time lol. Good shit capcom!
Ok, so we’re in agreement about most of the changes making her overall better, Flash. I just don’t see the BK nerf has that detrimental. Only one version (except for EX, which was already ass in vanilla) is SPDable. Just means against those characters if you’re using lk bk as a throw escape, you just have to instant air BK it, not ground BK it. HP TK is still 6 frames, but frame 1-5 is invincible in Super.
The only videos that are online are of back in October at Ranbats where i had just gotten out of the Navy and been playing the game for literally 2 weeks, or back in early Feb. 2 and a half months is a huge amount of time to adapt and evolve your game. Even in those blanka Vids i’m using alot more normals than most Vipers i see and working on positioning on a highly mobile character. Trust me, my game has evolved alot since then, and cr. mp and cr. fp OS Ex Seismo is gdlk in Super.
i still think her U2 is straight garbage and at this point i dont see why to use it. It would be nice if it could combo off of more than what 2 moves? or the dmg atleast be better.
it hurts tick throw baiting, corner pressure, and reversal’n tick throws a good bit.
i personally like her U2 just need to figure better setu’s for it
Her U2 has less setups, less damage, harder to punish with, and can’t be SJCed into (except for the slow HP SJ).
I really see NO uses for it. Capcom could have done something useful with it like give her an anti fireball ultra like abel’s U1 or a good anti air ultra. Instead we get a combo only ultra when we already have one of the best in the game.
Is it just me, or does BK seem to have a higher hitbox? (Mainly for the purpose of combos.) I could just be imagining things. Also, what about her c.MP is so much better now? I’m not denying it’s better, I just haven’t played around much with Viper since SSF4 came out.
I really like Viper’s U2, but that’s because I hated the inconsistency of landing Viper’s U1 in some cases; that’s probably just me getting too antsy with my combos, though. At least with U2 it’s 100% reliable once you know what to combo into, and FFF Seismo HJC U2 still gives you close to 500 damage. Maybe I’m just biased because I lost so many tournament matches on account of slightly miscalculated U1 juggles.
I won’t deny that U1 has more utility. But as of now it’s left a bad taste in my mouth.
Been messing around more and more with her and I think I have to agree with Flash, she’s better, but in a weird way i guess lol.
you guys are pawns, viper isn’t better, she has less safe options and less safe strings. Flash is just better at FG than most of the ppl he plays. her shitty matches will still be shitty and the decent ones are now a bit easier b/c most of them got nerfed. Unless you’re better at footsies than you’re opponent, you wont be out footsie’n akuma, rog, etc… Play as hard as you want, but if you’re not teching 80% plus throws and blocking ambiguous jump ins/vortex’s like he does, you’re still gonna get bested.
Her ok matches, sagat/ryu/rose/chun got a lil easier or stayed the same, butdon’t forget her bad ones got worse/same. ie honda,a kuma, blanka’s better pokes, the rog nightmare, and zangief (although the hp nerf makes it a bit more tolerable, still very hard imo)
I will say the FP tk going higher is nice, but i still get grabbed outta that shit when i know i have a clean reversal. I honestly can’t tell the cr strong change /shrug. I’m not on that lvl.
edit: dont know how accurate this is, but viper’s frame data
http://www.sfframedata.com/walkthrough/pages/cviper.php
Meh, I’m dropping her if I can’t spam specials like a scrub. Toodahloo vipah san.
yea, i pretty much agree with u, thats vanilla viper>ssf4 viper. but its easier because of everyon’es nerf.
Rose is harder, so is chuin.
Time to hit the defensive room then i guess…
If you don’t like her changes, don’t play her. I’ve been saying she’s better in Super since the shit got leaked for Flashed 360s and i was able to talk about it. You just can’t be a baddie and hide behind spammable frame advantage anymore. You have to think, adapt, and holy shit, you might have to block and throw tech every now and then. Viper is better at high level play now. If you don’t see that, you’re not a competent Viper player, and you need to suck it up and learn, or gtfo.
That data still lists MP TK as +3 on hit. Is it still this way? It doesn’t really feel that different to me, as I didn’t play too much Viper in Vanilla (although I did play a little bit of her), but this could just be people still conditioned not to move after getting hit by it.
Gets the fuck out
You don’t have to not play her if you don’t like her changes. All i’m saying is that her changes affects her negatively, and that I’m not at a level to appreciate the c.mp buff.
Better in super = can’t be a baddie and hide behind spammable frame advantage anymore?
If anything having the ability to spam moves that give you frame advantage, gives that character an advantage, thus “better”.
Is it brainless? Perhaps. Would noobs spam them? Perhaps. Does this give viper an advantage? Yes. Did she lose this advantage in Super? Yes, from bk and tk frame adv. Does that make her better? Doesn’t look like it.
Im pretty sure along with the spammable moves you can think adapt and block. Why couldn’t you? You just assume people who liked the frame trap aren’t blocking. Why can’t you be a good player, defense, and still abuse whats given to you?
You are sticking to your previous argument of her having frame disadvantages making her better. Its like saying giving dp’s less priority is making the shotos better, because they have to learn to block, and people would want to atk you during ur dp and you can wait and punish them. NO. THats not the case at all.
I highly doubt taking away those advantages or any advantage would make any character “better” at any level.
Would she require more skill to use due to lack of spammable moves ? Yes. Does she fair better against the vanilla cast? Perhaps, but it is not due to her buffs, if you read between the line when they say shes “better” they aren’t directly saying shes better in comparison to vanilla, they are saying shes better relative to the cast. I’ve experienced nerfs to rufus and ryu and are a lot easier to deal with. But cast like rose is harder. Ask any of the vipers, if they left her frame adv on the bk and tk, would that make her better? If they say yes, without it, it would by default make her worse wihtout it.
Here something I want to know, with her current changes, no frame adv on bk block, or tk block/hit. And with a c.mp that is not 3 frames. How would she fair against Rog? This is a serious question im wondering. Because even with the buff, her normals are in a diff league than Rogs. Wihtout the frame adv it would be harder imo.
Once again just like Flash, just like Wolfkrone, this is just imo. What you wrote is also in your opinion. If you dont like it, you dont have to agree with it, you don’t have to read it, and its totally unnecessary to behave like a douche to tell someone to suck it up and learn or get the fuck out. Like I said these are discussions and if you don’t like it, you dont have to agree, but to behave like the way you are…