Yeah, guess we’ll have to see how the match-ups and tiers end up over time.
Does anyone know how viper’s cr.mp changed in priority? Better hitbox? faster startup?
I got a chance to use viper the other day in ssf4 and she felt pretty much the same.
Been testing bks alot more in training mode
Seems LK Grounded BK is unsafe and can be reveral lp spd’d, but cant be hit with balrogs c.jab
Rest of grounded and aerial bks aren’t punishable unless done pretty high in the air.
Also you can link counter hit c.mp into c.hp ex seismo xx seems to be a 1 frame link.
FFF is much much easier.
Counter hit standing mp into ultra now works on most of(if not all of the cast) standing or crouching and is easier than sf4(couldnt do it at all unless it was against sagat)
Same here… you were making all this noise about the shoutouts to get more people on the stream but I decided to go to the teamspooky one for some peace & quiet…
when in doubt go with the negatives, that way you wont be disappointed when you use her.
To me, she is still the same except with crappier bk, and tk .
From my experience with the game and from what my friends are telling me Dudley is the new Sagat due to his high damage output the ridiculous stuff you can follow up on from a trade uppercut. From a footsie standpoint I think Viper can keep up with Dudley with her tools. The wake up game will be good for Viper as well as Rocket Uppercut is not as good as SF4 DP but don’t underestimate it anyways since it’s still a good move. What I fear in the match up is when Viper is cornered and getting pressured by Dudley. That pressure game is really beastly.
Cody is considered the new Ryu minus wake up DP but he’s incredibly versatile and Zonk Knuckle has a ton of invinci frames to it. It’s EX Jesus Kick good.
Adon might be a problem for Viper because he has the mobility to keep up with Viper, his pokes and footsie game is strong, and he deals a lot of damage. He can combo the overhead into c.LK, Jaguar Kick FADC Ultra for good damage. Jaguar Kick as a wake up option seems bad since it gets beaten out by cross ups so once you earn the untechable knockdown he’s going to have to defend his way out. What he lacks is a good anti-air besides Jaguar Kick which isn’t that great as an AA in general so once you earn the knockdown the match up seems more manageable. Playing a ground game with him is going to be difficult since he can Jaguar Tooth (wall bounce special) your Seismo game and his s.RH is really good and has a lot of active frames to it since it hits twice. I didn’t get to test EX Seismo against it since I was playing Ibuki and Juri that day so I’m not sure if EX Seismo to beat s.RH pokes will work though if it has as much active frames as I think it does EX Seismo will get beat if timed too early.
Hawk does some serious damage and has some really good pokes to him. He has ways to close the gap on Viper and go airborne with Condor Dive which makes me very weary to play the Seismo game on him.
I’m not so sure how Viper will fair against Juri. From a Viper main to the testing I’ve done with Juri this is how I think Juri can fight Viper.
Juri’s dive kicks and pinwheels are really unsafe if spaced properly they basically give you a free c.Strong, Thunder Knuckle combo and maybe an FFF depending on which version of the move they do and how they spaced it. Part of Juri’s game revolves around zoning with fireballs and storing them to release them later either in combos or different zoning tactics and this helps create openings to land the Dive Kick. With this being said, it makes the Seismo game difficult because Juri can trick you into trying to Seismo her fireballs by storing them instead. When she’s zoning with her fireballs she could create an opening where you try to punish with Seismo but instead stores jumps over your Seismo and gets a Dive Kick, Ultra II combo. Seismo in general gets less effective with the threat of a Dive Kick coming out.
Pinwheels may beat the Burn Kick wake up game on wake up or at least part of them making them less effective and she has the counter teleports to get her out of the Burn Kick moves. You can safe jump the Pinwheels and punish hard with FFF but if she counter teleports neutral jump or back dash the j.RH your oki game is gone. You can’t even OS TK/EX TK/EX Seismo the counter teleports. You basically treat that counter teleport like you would with Gouki parry. So delayed burn kicks, empty jump throw, and those type of tactics will beat the counter teleports.
That being said Juri’s damage output isn’t that great unless she lands Dive Kick into Ultra or something into EX Pinwheel so Juri has to do a lot more to beat Viper while Viper can land one combo and deal real good damage against her.
It’s got faster recovery on it so you can spam it if you want. It goes a long way for her because it ups her footsie game because it’s less punishable on whiff and allows you fish for CH’s all day long. CH c.MPxxEX Seismo SJC Ultra II/BK, Ultra I.
ive been playing super lately and from what i can tell her changes are godlike
garenteed changes -
- new low strong its amazing
- faster dp its really hard to get grabbed out of, the angle that it goes is arched alittle higher now too so it doesnt hit as far forward
- a new reg jump its alittle slow but the arch is really nice for stuff
- damage has been nerfed a bit but compared to other characters we made off like a bandit
- BKs have less advantage but its still enough to make it a good move
Things I believe but cant be 100% sure yet -
- her sweep is faster
- low forward is fixed it feels likes its hitting where it should now
Over all I think she is ATLEAST top 5 in the game garenteed considering how all her bad match ups have been nerfed and her new tools is exactly what she needed
Fuck yes.
Anyone got a link to this video?
Did the friend take damage scaling into account? I’d be willing to bet my epic beard that she has 900 health. Some thoughts:
Dudley has scary tools, but he’s not that hard to keep out. I can footsie him and keep him locked in the corner with Viper. However, his tools are rediculous if he gets inside. His kidney blow (f. mk) advances him, and is super positive on block. His BnB punish does just over 400 damage for one meter. He can combo his overhead into the same punish. Basically, all of his normals are positive on block, and he does good damage when he hits you. But he has to get to to you first, and since he’s a SF3 character, he doesn’t really have footsies, he’s used to having a parry, which he doesn’t have anymore. Just be calm and patient and play smart and he shouldn’t be able to threaten you. On an annoying side note, Ex machinegun blow is safe, and will be an U2 setup among newer dudleys as ex machinegun blow looks punishable.
cody is more like the new Rog. Every normal he has is high priority and active forever. He gets 350 damage off of a jab, and it’s really easy to do. Cody’s entire gameplan is to get in range, then hit buttons to beat everything you do. Zonk isn’t too bad. normal is only invincible from the knees up. Ex is completely invincible, but you’ll learn to safejump Cody soon enough. Both are unsafe on block and net cr. mk or cr. mp.
Adon is very annoying to fight. Jaguar Tooth (wall dive) is safe on block, so look for the CH fish after he does that. It’s much easier for him to get in on you, than for you to go offensive on a good Adon. He’s got a couple good AAs to keep you out, and Rising Jaguar has startup invincibility on it. Also, his ex jaguar kick (crescent kick) in the air is an overhead, so that could catch you off guard.
Juri isn’t too bad. You just have to get the first knockdown. Her counter teleport has a few startup frames, so she can’t do that on wakeup if you time your shit right. The only one that is instant is the EX version. Now that i think about it, i need to do some more testing with that and see if it works like her EX fireball, and the combination of 2 buttons determines which one. So far i’ve only seen her go up off of EX, but person may be doing mp and hp as ex. (for those who don’t know, her ex fireball is not storable, does 2 hits, and lk+mk is the low, lk+hk is the mid, and mk+hk is the high). Pinwheel kick is very crossup-able. Over half screen, she can’t punish a seismo with U2, and she needs to be semi-psychic to do it, she can’t punish it on reaction, as she won’t have enough height to make the RH dive kick.
Hawk is not bad. He doesn’t have a Lariat, and his SPD does much less damage than Gief’s. It’s a gamble for him to try to condor dive you, as it’s crazy unsafe on block, so you can still throw in seismo’s, but you won’t have to rely on them like you do against Gief. No lariat = rush all day. No green hand = much more screen to work with.
she feels overall faster is that me or do you feel the same?
Right here: http://www.justin.tv/inerd18/b/262485905
And if Viper turns out to be top tier…good, lol.
I think her sweep is faster too, but I’ve only used it after a SJC, FADC combo, but it seemed to hit them easier. FlashM, you think her reg jump goes further than before because I kept accidentally jumping over Dan when doing her new version of the old Hard Trial 3. I mentioned it to my friend but he couldn’t tell. I think she jumps further. Thanks for clarifying that her HPTK is better. I originally said it was much better then someone posted that it was completely unchanged…doh.
Did anyone else feel that the recovery on a whiffed Burst Time was faster? It looked like she went up in the air and fell faster than usual. It’s still a level 3 focus punish but it didn’t feel as long then in SF4. lol
Very cool if that happens. Glad she is looking good.
I may play alot of characters but I played Viper a whopping 80% time on player record lulz.
Racked up a user percentage with Viper similar to yours Polo, lol. Cool stuff.
Looking back at the time I saw some early vids of Viper(somewhere in this thread, I’ll try and dig it out tomorrow, bedtime now, lol) in Super, her sweep does seem a bit faster.
Yo Deviljin, I hear you spreadin’ the word of ‘Herp Derpxx Ultra’ on that stream my nigga.
Got considerably more time in with it now, at first I thought she’d really been nerfed, but now she actually feels better…All her combos are easier once you adjust to the timing, for some reason FFF seismo HJC sweep is more consistent than Fierce or plain EX seismo into sweep (is that just me?) and low Cr. MP recovery is a very useful tool (though it feels the same on block) I’m gonna have to see something insane to believe the Hakan match isn’t the easiest match Viper will ever have. Balrog and Gief are much (fairer?) than before, Honda is still really hard but the damage nerf helps.
On the downside, the BK nerf killed a lot of my BS shenanigans (i.e. frame advantage abuse) and I’ve still been thrown out of/traded my HPTK occasionally, but I’m starting to feel like LPTK is her only anti-air anyway. Blanka is HARD to beat now and I’m having serious trouble against Ken (he feels stronger against Viper than Ryu at this point) any random tips for that?
oh yeah lol DevilJin your Viper’s NICE…
LOL. Yeah I picked it up a while ago and it just clicked for me. We were just expecting the stream to get about 20 people from the local area. Didn’t expect it to be a wide broadcast thing like it ended up being. I really enjoyed it and glad people know about SFIV’s good ole herp derp strategies. Luckily it’s not so bad anymore and is smarter than it was in Vanilla.
Thanks for the props. I’m trying to level up my Viper especially now with her buffs so hopefully I’ll be placing higher in some tournaments soon. I want to play Ibuki in some tournaments but it’s going to be a while before I feel comfortable putting her in one. She’s just too different from 3S for me to just throw her in the ring.
I’ve been starting to mess around a bit more with Viper’s anti airs and although she doesn’t really have a go to one like Ibuki does (thankfully) she has some solid ones like s.HK, HP knuckle and I’ve started to figure out how solid c.HP is as an anti air. c.HP specifically beats a lot of Blanka’s jump ins and it stops Rufus j.HK.
Oh so it wasn’t just me who got AA results from c.Fierce. I would randomly get c.Fierce to act as an AA in some bizarre scenarios and I thought it was due to some other factors.
Also, I really like s.Forward as a way to beat cross up attempts when spaced right. It’s just a nice DENIED move.