Lol, yeah, I was thinking of cheating to do that trial.
As for crouching fierce> feint> cr.mp, nah it doesn’t whiff. That’s not good, lol.
Try Standing Fierce, does that hit in SFIV too?
That doesn’t whiff either. Cr.mp whiffing in that situation is not a good sign in SSF4. Are you sure it whiffed?
it happened twice in a row, on the third time I did Crouching fierce, Feint, Crouching forward, to make sure it hit. If my friend brings the game again, I’ll test it and video it and post it here…don’t quote me on it not working, I’m just saying it wiffed two times out of two attempts lol
This thread is full of inaccuracies. Allow me to clear them up. I’ve been helping write the guide for Super, and while i can’t divulge any frame data, i can confirm a few things:
HP TK is now throw invincible for the entirety of the startup frames (i.e. the first frame that you can hit it is the first frame it’s active, so expect alot more trades, instead of being stuffed clean).
Walk speed is the same, the game overall feels slightly faster.
cr. mk is the same (mp tk whiffs @ max range in vanilla anyway).
Priority improved on cr. mp, st. mp, st. mk
mp. tk had a huge block advantage nerf, people can now jump out of your next ground poke after blocking a mp tk (R.I.P. Noob-Killer)
900 health, 950 stun
Ultra2 is ass, and will only be used by new/casual Vipers, as it does noticably less damage, and you lose roughly half of your setups, and almost all of your scariness in the corner. You can SJC both cr. fp and st. fp into Ultra2, and obviously it’s easy to connect off of Ex. Seismo. Ultra2 will not crossup (at least from the hour straight i tried on Ryu, Juri, and T. Hawk)
Lol @ T. Hawk being trouble for Viper. No Lariat = free.
Improved invincibility window on Ex BK
Ex TK is still ass on an ass cracker.
She overall “feels” smoother and these slight buffs will help her out alot in the flood of character nerfs.
Side Note: Abel might be up to a 7-3 Abel now with the unneccesary buffs that dirty Frenchman got. Sagat will definitely be 6-4 Vipes now.
If you guys have any other ideas, lemme know, i can test em rather easily.
So, reversal SPD definitely kills blocked MP TK now? Is it punishable by 3 frame moves now?
Thanks Flook!
Can you test this out please: does Ultra 2 have good priority air to air? Can it counter anti-airs?
Yeah Abel’s sounding like a solid bet for near top tier now. I’ll definitely be glad about finally being able to press buttons at Ryu and Sagat though.
Wow, so Abel got buffed? What exactly does he do better now against Viper? Like, what should we look out for in terms of Viper-specific counters from him? Always had problems with Abel players, so this isn’t good news. Does Viper stand a better chance against Hondas now that her normals and FP TK are much better?
PS: That’s great about EX BK getting better invincibility frames. I hated how that move occasionally traded with normals at times, and lost to special moves like Rufus’ Snake Strike. Sad to hear EX TK has no changes, but it’s still a wildcard I like to use occasionally.
God kunai you dont even wanna know,but see if i can short list it.
Ultra 2 is a fucking god and can be charged if i remember correctly,stm buff,dmg buff
a few frame tweaks if i remember correctly.
toddler: Thanks… I guess Abel is one of the only guys who has a better Ultra2 than Ultra1? I also heard about improved Skyfall as AA, which I’m sure means “no-fly zone” for Viper.
Also, I think crouching MK for Abel gave Viper problems in Vanilla… don’t remember but I do remember one normal stuffing a lot of her moves… I’m sure that’s worse now if his normals are better.
the only char i recall from vanilla that had drastic changes to normals were Gen and Gouken.
Abel can Sky Fall as reliable anti-air now, so now you can’t attack him on the ground or the air. His TT got nerfed 20 dmg for all strengths, but who gives a shit. It’s still a hugely advantagous position for abel, as you get to choose between big damage, and moderate damage, where both leave you in the position to make that same choice again. His cr. HK has more range. Ultra2 is rediculous. He can activate, and keep it charged for like 4 seconds. It’s a grab, so if you go in the air, you better be going over his head, or prepare to eat half life and be in the corner in an anklegrabbing position. It has armor, and he can choose to cancel out of the ultra completely if you do happen to jump over him, at which point he recovers in time to not be punished for being a tard. It has just slightly less range than Ultra1, which is still half screen. Basically the way to beat abel now is to fireball him until he gets ultra, make him whiff his ultra, fireball him some more, make him whiff his 2nd ultra as he’s focusing alot of your fireballs, then time him out. Health/stun are same, damage is lower for the most part, but negligible overall. Viper has to apply the same strat as in vanilla (which feels alot harder, especially since all the testing i have with this match is against juicebox), but now has to be aware of ultra2.
As for Viper’s Ultra2, it’s pretty ass air to air. Most of the time she’ll just fly right through. And obviously, it will punish reversals if timed/spaced right (i.e. jump back on their wakeup and activate shortly into their whiff animation), but you don’t get any setups with ultra2 that you can’t get with ultra1. Ultra2 is basically just there for the casual Viper that doens’t really wanna “work” for damage. You just kinda do it after EX Seismo and it connects. You’re sacrificing damage and setups for a guaranteed connect, pretty much.
So far the chars with better Ultra2’s as of now are Juri, Chun, Guile, Hakan, Dan, Adon, Sagat (imo. Tiger Cannon utility brings back the CvS2 scariness now that his damage is pretty much halved), Guy, Cody, Ibuki, Fuerte, Akuma (he can combo into ultra now), Sakura, Rose, Seth, Abel, Vega.
Honda match is better now, as they lowered the damage on his FP by alot. No more jesus chop for 180. Still gonna be rough tho, but i don’t think 7-3. He’s gotta land more than 5-6 hits now.
Ultra 2 is sounding pretty disappointing, sad to hear. Hopefully it’ll have specific uses in certain match-ups.
Ultra 2 only looks cool.
And I’m pissed you still go flying in the air if you whiff Ultra 1, I mean seriously, the fuck bro? :mad:
I may be switching to Ibuki also, she’s pretty much exactly like Viper, except has waaaaay more tools to deal with bullshit, which my homegirl Vipuh, seems to lack. Even now.
Oh yea btw, FUCK JURI.
Instant normal jump BK will still be problems for Abel on wake-up right? Meaning his only options would be roll or block correctly
Is st.mk a legit poke now? If so how legit
I pretty much figured U2 was as described… But how good is the damage on lvl2 non-comboed U2?
I was wondering about players who are sick with BK antics i.e Dashio… I was thinking maybe if you are pro with BK shit that there could be some dope U2 bait if your BK mindgames are pro… example series: cross-up instaSJC BK(hit), they tech, dash instaSJC cross-up BK(they block), you antipate throw, srk, poke, etc… So you SJ back U2 their whiffed whatever…
Anything new or tweaked with lp tk? havn’t seen it mentioned
News…Zangief is now free…does no damage at all, ultra 2 hits him all day, green hand is crap, lariat trades…you can backdash out on wake up off Lariat/SPD, and green hand isn’t scary at all. Trades are almost even and you can rush him down…this is insane. And Hakan is basically a 10 - 0 matchup from what I can tell…In fact this is all insane…Everyone says Viper’s still at 900 health but she feels like she takes no damage. She sweeps Balrog out of his headbutt (non EX) clean…
Deviljin and a few others playing right now
HP TK is slower meaning you have to delay your feint slightly. I found myself getting EX TK a lot when trying FFF at first.
They changed one of her old trials in SF4. The old trial was j.RH, s.short, c.jab, SJC Ultra but in SSF4 its j.RH, s.short, s.jab, SJC Ultra.
About Abel: instant normal jump bk isn’t scary for abel. it’s a mindgame he can afford to lose a few of because of the ass damage on your won mindgame compared to his mindgames. If he guesses wrong he takes what…90dmg? Not to mention after he eats that, he’s at the perfect range to not have to worry about your options. If you go for the super jump ambiguosity, he can spot you in the air and roll, or if you did it too late, he can just hp Sky Fall you, and now your position is reversed, except his crossup mk is still gdlk and you have to burn a meter to escape, and that only works if he doens’t have ultra, as he can OS his Ultra2 if you EX BK or EX Seismo/Feint. So your wakeup game degenerates to you guessing right and him eating either ~90dmg from BK with a favorable position or 130 from a throw with him in a neutral position. Rolling and Blocking correctly both lose to throw. The problem is TT beats your throw. So it comes down to you having to win alot of mindgames on wakeup where you are sorely outdamaged with a 200 health deficit to start with.
st. mk has always been a legit poke at the right range. You have to use it as a footsie, not an aggressive rushdown poke. At the tip of the toe, you’re gonna win. As for U2, it does roughly 100 less damage fully charged than U1.
The problem with the Dashio antics is it’s still a guess and a bait. U1 is more damage with more setups, period. U2 looks better, but i doubt any serious Viper player will use U2 in tourney play except for a very select few matchups.
Zangief is not free, Ultra still does 550 damage. Green hand was never scary. If green hand is hitting you, lrn2seismo. If Lariat is trading as anti-air, the Gief needs work on his timing. Lariat is still infallible as anti-air. The backdash on wakeup is not viable, as the Gief should be cr. lp OSing Green Hand or df. HK. Sounds like you played a baddie Gief, sir.
@Hakan matchup: No. After playing people who have been playing him since early February, Hakan has some nastiness to him, especially since the threat of Ultra2 bails him out of alot of your rushdown antics. It’s still in Viper’s favor, but it’s not as laughable as 10-0. 6.5-3.5 probably.
Jaded: Ibuki is really strong looking right now. Mostly everything except Raida is safe on block, unless you space it completely retardedly. She’s like an auto-pilot Viper. She will have alot of the same problems Viper has matchup-wise, but she has a crapton more tools:
Full-screen punish (Neckbreaker) that leads to an UKD in perfect position for ambiguous Kunai auto-pilot. (EX goes through projectiles)
Ex Kazegiri is invincible on startup, with deceptive horizontal range, and you can cancel into Kunai at any point of your decent if any part of kazegiri hits or is blocked.
Command dash is fast, and is ambiguous depending on if you do medium or fierce
Makoto-like normal dash, Chun-like backdash
Akuma-like focus
Massive hit and block stun on kunais (yes, she can actually run better than akuma can, imo)
Raida is throw invincible with rediculous range, allows her to more or less ignore footsies
Tsumuji is safe on block
Air throw
Can link into sweep, or any ender for ambiguous kunai setups.
SJC Ultra2
Not 1, but 2 infallible NORMAL (cr. HP and b. MP) anti-airs, both SJCable, and she gets dash -> Raida on trade
Can slide under projectiles, including low tiger shot
Ibuki will definitely be a beast until people learn the fight.
Was playing quite a bit earlier with viper and SJC HK Burning Kick is punishable on block by t hawks 360(not sure on the startup frames but i’d assume its 2 like zangief).