negative frames on her BK? capcom can take a nice 14 inch shiny slipper dildo and slowly shove it up there ass. then proceed to destroy their internal organs with the vibrations.
/rant
so did viper get any buffs at all or all nerfs?
i heard c.mk comes out faster and longer reach now but thats about it as far as buffs go.
i bet they didn’t do anything to buff her sweep. its the slowest sweep in the game. even abels got a speed boost.
^
Apparently, Viper got a buff to her cr.mp. That’s it, lol.
BK at disadvantage now? C’mon! However, it depends on how much disadvantage it leaves you at.
Basically, the most advanced and unique character in the game imo got shit on and the easier, more boring characters (mr.jab jab headbutt) either got buffed or left the same.
Thanks capcom.
If BK recovery is really noticeable and cr.mk isnt buffed then im gonna do what sanford said and “pick a top tier”
I’m hoping “too good” is only a translation quirk and it means they think cr.mk is a ‘gooder’ poke than cr.mp. otherwise, wtf.
to be fair, if she does have a faster walk speed (as rumoured), I’ll be happy with that and a buffed cr.mp.
we’ll just have to see how BKs are adjusted, cos something like a 1 or 2 frame tweak won’t be so bad. air burn kicks will still be good. with ground ones… I don’t think it matters, when I think about it. IIRC in SF4 lk BK is neutral on block, mk one is +1, and hk one is +2.
after a lk one I never really do much except go for a crossup or another burn kick anyway, or something like EX seismo / fp tk FADC, seeing as how your pokes will just get beaten out by most characters. so making that -1/-2 won’t be a big deal.
you gotta take a pretty big risk to get someone to block a ground hk burn kick, so that was never a frame trap that seemed very useful. you may as well just do a mk/hk instant air burn kick instead.
Just read Azrael’s translation, and it said that BK was only getting a few frames of advantage taken off it. And they said that cr.mk was “pretty good.”
Bad for grounded BKs but not so bad for aerial ones?
Hmm, added a few extra frames, i’m assuming at least 3 frames?
Normal bk’s frame adv. is liek this (lk to hk) 0, +1, +2, -6 for ex
For the air +8, +6, +4, +2 for ex.
This could get really dangerous if they added more frames to the regular bk’s…i mean ohters can already OS dp us out of them. does adding frame make lk bk into a disadvantage, punishable move? thats shitty…
as for the air bk’s, i think i was discussing this with emblemlord a while back, the +8 adv is extremely misleading. otherwise u can get a free throw…when they say +8, they haven’t factored in landing frames, i thikn watching gilley’s video it shows 4 frames to land? or soemthing along the lines of that…and this also doesnt take into consideration the height of ur bk…if u dont do low trajectory ones consistently…thats even more frames of disadvantage… they are tightening it up if they are adding a few frames to this…
Lets assume 3 frames are added, and worse case scenario for all
Normal bk’s frame adv. is liek this (lk to hk) -3, -2, -1, -9 for ex
For the air +5, +3, +1, -1 for ex.
looking at this, lk and mk bk would get spd’d… lk bk gets dp’d
the air ones…like i said the numbers are misleading it’ll probably look closer to…
For the air +1, -1, -3, -5 for ex.
if you included a -4 frame for landing.
From the sounds of it, it looks like c.mp will be 4 frames?
I have no idea what those guys are smoking? if c.mk is pretty good…then…like every other second character has godly pokes…ryu’s c.mk is… gdlk! i just dont get it…
im also taking into consideration worst case scenario and assume c.mk isnt fix, nor is the hit box…
I’ll even include the rumor’d inc. rec. frames for the tk’s…
im just corssing my fingers the frames added to bk isn’t more than 1 frame…but i highly doubt that…
Yeah that’s why I never took the frames on event hubs too seriously. Jumping attacks don’t really have set frame advantage/disadvantage. It depends on where u are in the air. I mean shit burn kicks only did 100 damage and put u in a techable knockdown state. It’s not like Gief lariat that rapes ur life. She can’t even land big damage directly off burn kick unless it lands in the corner or she has super (and super doesn’t do THAT much damage). I mean there is the new found perfect insta cross up BK to mid screen ultra setup but u can’t really rely on that everytime u go for it. U just have to go for it and if you get the perfect cross up then u can mash ultra and connect it.
Yeah, that’s what I’m worried about too. If, like you said, 3 frames of recovery are added, that means Light BK becomes punishable on block. That move’s cool for avoiding tick throws and stuff and Viper’s got crappy defensive options as it is so if that becomes punishable, it’ll make things worse. If they wanted to nerf BKs, they should have just nefed aerial BKs then(not like they were even that strong anyway.)
Speaking of Eventhubs, lol at everyone saying BKs were overpowered and needed to get nerfed, they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Concerning c. mp buff:
After reading Azrael’s translation, I think they meant to say that c. mk overshadows c.mp so they buffed c.mp so it is used more.
This gives me hope they fixed the c.mk hit box too. How can they be examining c.mp vs c.mk and not see the no-hitbox-foot and then not fix it?
Yeah I can’t imagine what Viper’s offense would be like with punishable BK’s. I mean I honestly see myself just doing not much but throwing ambiguous j.HK left and right if and of them leave enough disadvantage to be reversal DP’d or supered. Apparently Boxer’s hit box is less dumb on wake up so it should be easier to ambiguous cross him with j.HK but burn kicks are really like block strings for her because her block strings are so ass and even then there’s a lot ways to scape goat them by using crouching normals to go under them, jump through them or focus attack/focus dash them.
It’s already been confirmed that c.MK was fixed hit box wise so we shouldn’t have to worry about that. I think all the devs were saying was that c.MK was particularly good considering what she could do with it if it hit. Which yeah she can start some decent pressure with MP knuckles and feints and what not but she isn’t Akuma so that directly makes her c.MK far less effective along with the shit hit box. Not being able to knock people down off c.MK basically forces her to do a lot of risky shenanigans especially when all of her combos off c.MK are unsafe on block.
Apparently, cr.mk hitbox was supposed to be fixed, but I don’t know yet.
EDIT: Someone on another forum brought up one point. Is it possible all the frame advantage was nerfed to 0, which would mean both players were at neutral advantage? But there was that other translation where it said BK’s advantage got nerfed to a point where it was probably unsafe?
haha for gouken]
As for other stuff, his overhead and “all of his normals come out a little faster.”
thats something we all would like for viper…all her normals coming out faster…
punishable bks, poor block strings…shit for life…sigh…this makes viper that much harder…
you know what i would like to see? seismic hammer recovery…its 31 frames…why?
is seimo really that over powered? i think it takes tremendous skills to land…not like hadouken…
i honestly think they should bump it down to just 20 frames of recovery, which is still a significant amo0unt…but 31 frmaes??..
i dont even know how her c.mk and c.mp are considered as good pokes…c.mk maybe better than c.mp in smoe ways…but they are by far good…what can u connect? a tk? thats it!
I’m still skeptical about the c.mk hitbox fix…cuz i havent really seen it…i know magus says its better…but i’d like to expect the worse…also if c.mk already overshaows c.mp. after fixing the hit box wouldnt c.mk be even greater than c.mp?
neutral frame adv, is a-ok with me…negative is a bit much…
but i kinda do agree bk are spammed a lot…but having said that…anyone who knows how to play viper…her bk is useless…even uryo said pros know how to punish bk’s, so he uses seismos…
it just boggles the mind, when they do this to viper, and let rufus keep all his shit…his “toned” down dmg of ex SS still looks beastly…maybe this will make it a greater reason for us viper users to be proud of her when we win? haha
Maybe fixed 2MK hitbox means we will be able to do c.HP feint c.HP feint c.MK TK on other characters than Zangief.
Just switch to Ibuki she’s the new Viper.
c.jab, c.RH combos into an untechable knockdown that sets her up for the vortex. A untechable knockdown off of a 4-5f poke is the stuff that Viper dreams of having. I’m making the switch and find an alt to cover the rest of the match ups. 
I tried to explain why the BK nerf is stupid to some people and they were like +8 is really good but they don’t quite realize the context of that +8. BK directly on opponents head on wake up vs sj BK just in front of them and you’ll see the difference in that +8. Take into consideration the landing recovery frames and then the start up frames to her moves. You would swear that some people think +8 would make her rog status with c.Jab tick throws.
Some dude from Eventhubs:
*“Viper was high in execution, but you get that down and her gimmicks made her pretty damn easy to win with. They were obviously looking at higher level players that could abuse this, lower level players won’t matter, they are just removing more abusable tactics,or atleast making them weaker.”
*
…What is this? Come off it.
Man, don’t even listen to event hubs everyone there had some stupid inaccurate opinion on every character in SF4. It’s filled with G3 scrubs who whine because they can’t win against low level tactics.
LOL. Don’t even mention event hubs on this site.
Oh and yeah I never understood 31 frames of recovery on a whiffed seismo. You basically can’t use seismos against scrubby players because of this and even half decent ones if you whiff one seismo because of a slight misjudgement u have 31 frames to get owned. They literally get half a second to jump in like a fucking idiot and own you. The move already takes 23 frames to release if it’s non EX so why do I need a whole half second to be punished?
WTF does it matter of burn kicks are spammable? They do NO DAMAGE! You take 100 damage and can get back on your feet. Unless you are in the corner burn kicks are barely anything close to dangerous. That’s like saying El Fuerte’s splashes are spammable. Yeah they are but who gives a fuck? Splashes still do no damage and there’s like 10 escapes for splashes. Whereas Rufus hits you with a dive and OH WEE 300 damage BnB.
I know I shouldn’t listen to or mention eventhubs, but it’s really jarring how people have these misconceptions about Viper, lol.