Mr.Wiz confirmed…air to ground trades (shoryu trade to Ultra) has been reduced to ST status. Both characters recover from an anti air trade at the exact same time. So it puts people in a neutral position like in Super Turbo so the only advantage is a slight advantage to whoever did the more damaging move during the trade. No combos and no more entirely favoring the person who was on the ground. So basically Viper has lost trade HP knuckle to Ultra as an Ultra setup just like everyone else has.
Does anyone else think vipers burn kicks are gonna get screwed with the quicker fas across the board?
Only new info from the podcast about Viper was that Viper’s new Ultra is really good for air to air situations which is what we already figured…
yea, they only mentioned the air to air ultra…
too bad nothing else…
but i mean if they made tk’s slower…its not that bad, if everyone (minus chun/sak) got nerfs…i mean no trade ultras, 1000 health, no cancelling into special for sagat…wow…thats huge
@Ryuga: yea unfortunately i read what flash wrote as well
"Thats not true at all actually you cant Ultra 2 off BKs so if you use Ultra 2 you lose all BK mixups completely
in super as far as I know the only real major changes are MP TK its -2 now and low forward has less hit stun so its easier to reversal between low forward, mp tk besides that shes exactly the same"
Yeah I’m starting to understand a lot more about why Viper is the same when now the game is not quite the “EVERYONES GETTING BUFFED” game that Seth mentioned earlier. Ryu basically got nothing but nerfs (though in a good way so he actually is forced to use his smart shit) and the other characters that Viper was better than are buffed to be more competitive vs. her which is fine.
Plus Mr.Wiz chimed in that Honda headbutt does less damage and handslaps push back farther. Anything to help Viper. :lol:
Since trade juggles are gone, I believe Ultra 2 will ultimately be the way to go against Gief since Gief’s air normals trade frequently against HP TK but not being able to follow it up will make Ultra 1 not that great. Ultra 2 will probably serve as a good AA against him and if you can Seismo>Ultra 2 from a good distance, I think it would be more useful against him.
I think ultra 2 could be useful against fireball characters. it looks pretty quick - maybe you can use it to punish fireballs that regular jump-ins won’t reach in time?
deep jump-in ultra 2 will be a super irritating gimmick if it beats uppercuts out. haha. I would love to make sagat players rage with that
Lol, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did beat out DPs considering how DPs got nerfed up. Be cool if it worked against Lariat too.
Yea no kidding, the “every’s getting buff” was really the opposite.
I mean aside from Sakura, Chun, Dan, and Rose I didn’t really hear buffs from anyone else (maybe ken because of this hp dp).
My only concern is the FA speed now…its great everythin is more offensive…and people like sakura is going to have a ball with a fast FA, her current FA is pretty godly…
Viper herself will finally have a normal speed FA when everyone’s boosted.
Unfortunately that means super quick FA lvl 2 on burn kicks, and tk’s being less effective on FAs (reaction tks).
I’m fine with those characters getting boosts (except ken), especially when characters like cammy have weaker spikes, rufus has weaker SS and messiah, ryu is toned down, sagat is toned down, honda is what u said, zangief has less health and lariat no longer hits that low, even gen got weaker…
Even without trade ultra, and nerfed dp, Ryu is still pretty insane. I wish they got rid of his c.mk, it tears apart viper. That move goes way too low, at some angles it is essentially an antiair.
Elf maybe more annoying now (he may be faster (his normals)), rog and akuma are essentially the same. Akuma will probably be top tier now since everyone got knocked down. He was pretty top even in vanilla.
But my concerns are with the new ppl, Juri, T hawk, Cody, Ibuki, Makoto, Dudley (with the exception of guy, hakan, deejay, adon). They seem to be pretty over powered…guess we will just ahve to wait and see.
When it comes to Viper vs Juri, I’m not scared yet. Same with Cody. A bit wary of T-Hawk and Dudley though. We’ll see.
What happened to the faster EX TK? I would consider that a significant buff. Did I miss something - was it taken away?
Yeah all of that talk about Seth saying that everyone was getting buffed seems to be a farce so far. So far it’s basically all of the characters that were GDLK or pretty solid just got nerfed or remained the same. Since Viper fits into the pretty solid catergory she will probably remain unchanged and maybe get a slight frame nerf on a couple things on block. Don’t expect Viper to get anything new especially since Capcom basically sees her winning big events like SBO and placing highly or winning at US events. They’re too afraid of her being too good to fix any of her issues basically. :lol:
At this point I’m just praying c.MK’s hit box gets fixed. If they fix that then I’ll consider it a victory for Viper. She really doesn’t need that much now that Ryu and Sagat aren’t stupid anymore. Even Honda got damage toned down on his headbutt and hand slaps push him farther away on block so that makes him slightly less scary at close range now. Zangief’s lariat isn’t as stupid anymore and it seems like the Japanese are figuring out how to fight the up close game against Gief much better any ways. Now that all of the characters she had trouble with are getting fucked up she should have less troubles now by default. Rufus not taking away 40 percent of Viper’s life off EX snake strike will be awesome too.
Viper eats Ryu cr.mk for lunch.
BK destroys it, f+hk goes over lows and breaks FA since it hits twice, and if you have EX…free ultra!
Anyways, I’m glad they seem to have adopted the “nerf top tier” approach. There were some fun, well designed, balanced characters in SF4 vanilla that were only held down by the overbearing upper class. Now more characters can play with the big boys.
Yeah you just have to be really patient against c.MK and force him to wihff it so you can whiff punish with your c.MK or try to hop over it with f+MP. f+HK is ok against Ryu but I personally don’t use it much since Ryu will shoryu FADC your ass with the quickness if you whiff that shit especially since it makes her hit box HUGE if she whiffs. LK burn kick when placed right during footsies is solid against it though if Ryu catches on to your burn kicking he’s just going to mash c.jab or shoryu you. You just have to go through the options until you work your way in. Though without sitting on shoryu FADC and trade Ultra this matchup is going to be way more manageable. Just block a lot against Ryu and seismo every fucking fireball he does. If you keep him out of his fireball element then u just have to deal with the footsies and look for jump ins.
I wouldn’t really say she eats c.MK for lunch though. Especially when all Ryu has to do is switch to c.LP and LP shoryu and she can’t eat anything anymore. :lol: Both of those beat burn kick free. Alex Valle’s matches against Flash were a prime example of how easy Ryu can switch up his offense during footsies to deal with Viper’s ground game. It’s almost too easy.
I’m going to miss trade upper into Ultra with Viper since it actually required some kind of execution and timing to pull off and helped her against jump ins but Ryu being easier to deal with on the ground and when you take to the air is worth losing that.
Well, yeah, if he switches to crouch jab that’s a different story. Nothing’s gonna stop that. I wonder if Viper got that 3 frame jab that Uryo asked for…
HP TK trade > dash > HP TK is going to be missed as well. People will be jumping in on Viper for days now.
Yeah Honda already beat the shit out of HP Thunder Knuckle with controllable neutral jump HP any ways. Hopefully they give Viper something to compensate otherwise we’re gonna have to keep backdashing and throwing seismos as long as people want to jump in just like the old game. :rolleyes: I try to jump forward or super jump forward and HK to stop people from jumping like stupid sometimes but dash up LP shoryu kills that too.
well you can a2a ultra…
Yeah air to air ultra will be infinitely useful against Honda since he doesn’t ever put himself in much position to ever be comboed by Viper any ways. Air Ultra will keep him on the ground finally.
anyone heard anything about C.Viper’s BK’s being overheads in SSFIV? Like they were in the build before SFIV was released…
I heard this a few weeks ago but I’ve not yet seen or heard that it’s confirmed.
^
Nothing about C.Viper yet. So far, I’ve been hearing she’s more or less the same as she was in regular SF4.