Seeing as he gets a trade into ultra, i think the matchup is looking VERY grim…
I actually have the toughest time vs gief. He can destroy you so fast…
well now if he sits on a siesmo semi full screen you can flame kic ultra 
Agreed…The treatment of EX BK is stupid…at least some invincibility so I could use it AA or something…I can allow for the fact a lot of her moves are near useless or too situational (looks at close mk) but the ones we actually use are dumb (cr. mk hit box not matching up to on screen) Thinking about it, her double kick could be nice as a target combo too…the punishment you can receive off that second kick isn’t justified.
Also agree with DevilJin01…I’ll probably stick with U1 for most situations but in the bad matchups I don’t even get to land the damn ultra (Gief, Rog, Bull**** Blanka, and Honda) so maybe U2 will even things out a little - then Gief can unbalance it again with his air ultra…
Gief don’t deserve no air ultra.
gief is gonna get ownd now lol
ok is it jus me or does her hp tk look a tad faster
i most deff will b using this new ultra against gief
I agree. :lol: Only because in the current version of SFIV Gief is insanely hard to fight for Viper from anything but far range. Even then seismos weren’t designed as a killing tool and Viper’s normals just aren’t fast or long ranged enough for her to be a Dhalsim type character in the fight. So basically throwing seismos at him doesn’t do much more than take bits of health off of him but you can’t do that the whole 99 seconds. Viper’s health is too low and her options are too limited once he finally closes the gap by doing some random shit to win the fight being an absolute bitch the entire fight. At least El Fuerte has options to actually take the fight to Gief safely. Which is why that match is way more favorable for him. He actually has solid options from the air that Gief most contend with and allow him to actually work on winning a fight against Gief instead of just trying your hardest not to lose like the Viper matchup is now. If Gief gets in your face and you don’t lose the fight or just lose a ton of health off some random shit…the Gief player needs work on the matchup.
Well that’s the thing. Is there really anything wrong with the second Ultra being for scrubs? I mean people Ryu and Sagat are for scrubs but are they really for scrubs or do they just have tools that are easy to understand on a basic level? I mean that’s kinda what people sitting on the fence about playing Viper have been looking for with her. She doesn’t really have anything damaging and gimmicky like Rufus that doesn’t require little to no execution. Basically all of Viper’s tricks and “dumb shit” requires execution that almost requires you to buy a stick just to perform. So in order to make Viper cheesy you basically have to learn how to fly a plane. Why do that when u can just spam knees with Sagat or fish with j.HK’s and EX messiahs with Rufus? The Ultra will double as giving veteran execution hardened Viper players something they can use to stop the spam of brickhouse style characters like Gief and Honda who basically just want to spend the whole 99 seconds of the fight not giving a shit about your slow frames on your specials and normals. Now we’ll potentially have something to move forward at them with reliably once we have meter that will lead to some real damage.
Plus now scrubs and newbie Viper players will finally have an Ultra where they can just literally super jump after an EX seismo and connect. The first Ultra is said to still have more options for connecting so in effect most veteran Viper players will stick to Ultra except in the few matchups where Ultra 1 is unnecessarily difficult to connect. If Rufus and Sagat can be as cheesy as they are on a basic level of play then why can’t Viper have just a little bit of that? In effect it won’t even really be as good since Viper has terrible health and that’s just a deficit in itself in SFIV’s current state where the only high tiered character with shit health is Akuma. Mainly because he’s the only pixie style movement based character that has strong defensive options (3/4 frame shoryu, quick startup on normals, pretty much the best focus attack in the game, 9 options to slip out of trouble on wake up including shoryu FADC etc.) Viper is a character that is extremely easy to lock down once you knock her down. If you let Viper get up after a knockdown she CLEARLY outguessed you. Option select kills her chances to do much on her wake up otherwise similar to Chun Li.
I highly doubt Capcom did much character balancing/tweaking at the last Fight Club so there’s probably little-to-no info on Viper changes because there probably weren’t any. I’m half expecting the next show case of SSF4 will show case the character tweaks (alongside 3S characters?).
QFT because I was a pad player all my life and I bought a TE Stick just for Viper.
Also, if Capcom doesn’t change the hit boxes on some of the characters than Burning Dance would be ideal for characters like Honda since you can’t normally do a mid screen FFF, EX Seismo, SJC Burn Kick, Ultra and have to rely on FFF, EX Seismo, SJC FADC Ultra. Granted, you don’t get many opportunities to land it but it’s a much easier option to have then trying to create the ideal situation to land Burst Time.
Yeah I really don’t want Viper to change from what she is execution wise as a veteran Viper player. The execution allows you to set up mind games and offense that no other character is capable of. Viper is that character that I look for in fighting games that forces you to step up to the plate and think/react outside of the normal rules of the game in order to win. Not everyone under the sun should be able to play Viper. That defeats the purpose of the character. She is an advanced handling type of character like a stick shift on a car. There should always be characters like that to add diversity to a character roster. Most of the other characters in SFIV I find too one dimensional or overly rely on basic skills that don’t fit my play style. I like being that enigma of a player at tournaments and online where people just don’t really know what to expect. I also like a character that forces you to press a lot of buttons and have special moves that have a bajillion different applications and can be combined with each other to make new special moves. That’s what Viper is about and I’m pretty sure she won’t be much more easy mode in the new game.
I also see the 2nd Ultra being strong against things like buttsplashes against Honda that normally Honda can just start running a train on you with once you have meter. That’s one of the biggest problems of that matchup. You have nothing that starts up faster or punishes EX headbutt on block. His buttslams are safe on block. Neutral jump fierce allows him to take to the air for free. The new Ultra will give us something to bring him to the ground potentially and allow us to actually pressure him. Hopefully this works similarly against Gief since Gief’s ability to eat burn kicks for breakfast forces her to play out of her element and generally in a futile manner since the one time Gief knocks you down you won’t ever get back up. All of her damaging options to lead to Ultra are pretty much thrown out the window unless you use SJC FADC after EX seismo since Gief falls too fast after burn kicks to land Ultra mid screen without just frame timing. Doing damage to Gief alone is difficult as it is. You don’t really have much in this matchup that can lead to big damage against him due to his mostly superior footsies and huge health allowing him to take unnecessary risks at close range.
The one thing that concerns me with the Gief match up is his Ultra 2. Sure we have our Ultra 2 to counter Gief shennanigans given our current SF4 match up knowledge, however, Gief could just try to bait Burning Dance and then try to counter with his air Ultra instead. No idea how the 2 will interact but it could potentially backfire on Viper entirely and make the match up 8-2 for all we know. 
In which case I’m clearly counter picking Gief with some other character at that point. Here’s hoping Juri can handle Gief better or at least Viper has better tools to deal with the BS.
Yeah ultimately dealing with Gief will be focused on whether or not her tools are any stronger for dealing with lariat and how free she still is if she gets knocked down by him. If she still can’t take to the air at all vs. Gief and dies the first time she gets knocked down she’ll still be stuck with the limited offensive plan she has already vs. Gief. A plan to not lose instead of a plan to really force a win.
Oh and yeah…Gief’s new Ultra could more than likely negate any real benefit the second Ultra gives Viper. So against Gief if Viper’s tools aren’t buffed in that matchup specfically she’s still looking at a big downhill fight that she must spend all 99 seconds of every round to win only to just lose any way. Theoretically if you were to put the 2 characters in a fight where all of the rules of the previous SFIV are the same and the only difference is Gief has access to Ultra 2 and Viper still only has access to Ultra 1…Gief basically wins that match like 8-2 if the range on his air Ultra is that good. His grounded Ultra is almost unnecessary in the matchup since one knockdown wins him the fight through tick mix ups any ways. Gief’s Ultra 2 vs. Viper’s Ultra 2 in theory has the matchup still ridiculously bad if we don’t have any extra info to go on.
Yeah luckily Super SFIV will have 35 characters and I’ve already figured out how to use Sagat. :lol:
Frankly, I doubt the new ultra will add much to gief’s favor. Right now i’m seeing that matchup as horribly one-sided(like 7-3,(been playing a fairly good gief for like 2 weeks straight and losing miserably ) due to inability to apply proper pressure on gief and his ability to apply INSANE mixup pressure on you. Gief’s current ultra is beast and is nearly a guaranteed connect. Gief has been crossing you up all match with splash. Gief does a jump on your wake up. You’re expecting a crossup so you block. He actually did an empty jump to ultra= you’re fucked. These kinds of things make avoiding his ultra extremely hard. Viper’s options are very limited and gief has so many tools to help his mix up game that it’s not even funny. Not to mention that lariat fucks up any wake up pressure you might have wanted to apply, from cross ups and crossup BKs to feint>grab shennanigans. Only thing that beats it is a PERFECTLY timed grab or on the spot jump.
Not to mention that he has 1/3 more health than you and his ultra comes out VERY fast and recovers even faster.
Also, wtf is up with my fierce thunder knuckle getting grabbed by his ultra? Happened like 6 times, shit is retarded.
Anyways, S-Kill said viper was looking hot so i suppose she got some new stuff to deal with zangief and all others who were knocking her around. I hope he wasn’t just talking for the sake of talking…
Capcom, i’m only asking one thing. Better normals and a better footsie game.
Fierce thunder knuckle takes 7 frames to execute so u can get thrown out of it before u hit the person. If all she got was better normals I’d be fine. Something that allows her to play footsies with characters like dog.
Viper deserves a Kara throw it’ll help improve with the thunder knuckle fake outs, Instead of walking 2 steps forward to grab your opponent.
small change. make burning kick qcf+k. this way i don’t mess it up sometimes when i get the neutral jump instead of a forward jump when doing IBK.
That ain’t happening. :lol: It’s not like it’s as bad as Bison’s Ultra getting mistaked for a teleport. U just gotta grind that out in training mode.
Yeah Ex-tk is a little slow that’s like one of the few things I can see that should be changed with her. Her throw range also seems shorter than others. I’m standing still in front of my opponent and my opponent usually a Ryu is also standing still I throw out my throw but it misses. The ryu doesn’t miss his throw though.
That is so annoying when you can be c.lp out of it, otherwise some of her other normal moves should be slightly faster too then Viper will be pretty much perfect - apart from being harder to use than other characters 