There are some characters in this game that just don’t need any buffs. Viper is one of them. She’s scary enough as is.
ROFL ok dude i wanna disagree simply because i have around a year or so of intense experiance with the chick and the in’s and outs are not apparent initially
but dude your avatar and profile are so cool i feel remiss to argue with you.:china:
Well I’m just saying that because I personally find Viper a nightmare to deal with, being a Dhalsim and Gouken player.
I probably would have a different opinion if I used a counter Viper character or if i was a better player in general.
Just the thought of Viper actually being stronger makes my bladder hurt. :xeye:
That’s what everyone says if they’ve never used her before. She’s a lot of smoke and mirrors…trust me. Of course if u use dhalsim ur gonna be afraid of viper. Dhalsim is a shitty character and gouken is better but not by a lot. Plus gouken’s style is counter productive against viper who doesn’t give a shit about goukens armored options. The reason ur scared of viper is more due to how dry and limited the characters u use are and not really that she’s si beastly. That’s why they’re buffing everyone in Super. Too many dry characters with little to no options in certain matchups which just adds on to the defensive play.
Yes, their names are Ryu, Sagat and Akuma. Ryu and Sagat have no real weaknesses, and a few moves that are so good they solidify them at the top. All of Ryu’s basic movements, normals, specials, speed, etc. are great enough that they mask the mediocrity of many players, and Sagat does the same with the help of huge easy damage and extra stamina.
Akuma requires a bit more skill to use effectively than Ryu or Sagat, but in the right hands he’s ridiculously scary. Has the most options in the game to play either offensively or defensively. Best sweep, best focus attack, best teleport, very fast, huge damage on meterless combo’s, st.HK means he never needs to worry about focus baiting. Vortex/flipkick shenanigans make him the only character that can constantly be attacking with mixups while remaining completely safe. The only way you could buff him would be extra stamina, which would make him too good and go against Capcom tradition.
Viper has none of this. She has great options and if you don’t use her its easy to watch videos of Uryo or someone and think she’s unstoppable, but unlike a lot of characters, that type of play requires a ton of smart decisions on the fly, quick reactions and godlike execution…and, in reality, she actually has a lot of basic gameplay areas that she’s very weak in. Bad wakeup options, slowest normals in the game, useless focus, ok anti-air at best, some pretty shitty EX moves, difficult to land ultra.
Word.
I recently convinced some other players to just pick her up on the side to “see” what i’m talking about. The amount of “holy shit dude, this chick isn’t worth playing” i got was astounding. Love it when people find out you actually have a basis for your complaints.
Wow. I never knew Viper was so lacking. Makes me wish I were a better player so I could exploit these weaknesses better.
I wouldn’t say she’s “lacking,” but she’s not as great as some people think she is. She’s not a bad character, but she’s mid tier for sure. She’s s-rank on the flashiness tier though, which is what confuses people 
- 1 for flashiness
I don’t agree at all. Viper has one of the most underrated ultras in the game, she has one of the best. Unless you’re talking about difficulty in terms of skill it takes to land with execution. She can land her ultra off of so much shit, it’s almost too good.
There is a lot of inconsistency with her ultra based on location and/or hitbox size. Not everyone can have free ultra’s like Ryu/Balrog. I’d prefer if her ultra did -not- change due to the skill level. Part of Viper’s uniqueness is that she’s incredibly difficult to use. I’d rather not have her become some easy to use character, thats what makes her fun and exciting to play.
If you’re in it just to win – go play Ryu or Sagat.
Viper’s a character of many strengths, but most of those strengths have trade-offs. Her ultra is one example. She has more ultra setups than anyone else in the game (except Gen, but a couple of his setups that put him over the top like mid-screen c.lk -> ultra and wtf kick -> ultra are incredibly unpractical), so I’m fine with ultra juggles requiring fickle timing.
I honestly don’t whiff ultra that often these days anyway. I mean yeah, it definitely happens, but them’s the breaks.
give her mk2 jax ground pound
Rufus has the most unique ultra set-ups in the game and each one gives you enough time to hit the move, go fix a sandwich, come back and vacuum them up.
The thing I don’t understand is why the characters with the most ultra set-ups (Viper notwithstanding) also get braindead easy timing on all of them. You look at a character like Sakura, she can ultra after an ex tatsu and well-timed dash. That’s her one option, and it generally comes only after considerable damage scaling. So why is the timing stricter than any of Sagat or Ryu’s dozens of set-ups? No sense at all. People cite Ryu’s low damage ultra, but tons of set-ups for 300 dmg is better than zero set-ups that many characters have. And again, Sagat has just as many AND monster damage on his ultra. How does any of this make sense?
Again, I’m not saying I have a hard time hitting Viper’s ultra consistently. I’m more complaining about the design choices of the ultras themselves, with respect to each character. Why, exactly, did Capcom decide that an ultra with one of the stricter hitboxes in the game should have about 400 frames of recovery? Meanwhile Boxer can meterlessly link into ultra in any situation, the timing isn’t strict in the least, and if you somehow manage to miss it anyway, Boxer recovers extremely quickly and on the other side of the screen. Then you have the plethora of other characters that don’t have any of the advantages Boxer has, and were given zero practical ultra set-ups for their trouble.
I don’t want them to make Viper or anyone else easier as much as I’d like the other characters to become less braindead. It’d be nice to see a Sagat match and think “wow that was really impressive” instead of “wow that was really easy and stupid.”
Yeah its almost as if Capcom made a joke out of Viper’s SNK likeness and purposely gave her Ultra one million recovery frames. Good thing it has some invincibility at least cuz it recovers terribly just like an SNK super.
Speaking of inconsistencies with ultra HP Knucke AA to ultra is very unreliable. That shit is basically a shot in the dark whether or not you’ll hit the ultra. Especially if u hit thr person from high in thr air or they have a wonky hit box like Rufus.
I’ve seen plenty of Viper matches lost by the game being picky on a hit box by like one pixel and dropping the ultra. Like to the point where there’s no way to verify the ultra from an air hit. Its like as the opponent is falling down there are random areas where either their hit box or yours adjusts so landing the ultra becomes some risky mind game. This happens frequently when trade AAing against Rufus to ultra when he’s near the corner. The fattest fuck in the game and somehow his hit box randomly will shift too far out of the way to ultra and you die for no reason. Love this game. :tup:
Yeah it seems like the hitbox is also dependent on the move that put the character into the juggle state. As a general rule, the ultra will connect if the start-up animation begins as the opponent is horizontally level with about Viper’s head. If its a few inches above or below it misses. However, when juggling in the corner with fierce or especially medium TK, the opponent has to be slightly lower, around uniboob level, to connect. Same goes for ex seismo->sjc bk->ultra midscreen.
And thats why the explosion hitbox should be fixed and the flamekicks followup. Sometimes the flamekicks dont connect. Offcourse i dont mind having to hit the ultra at specific timing after some setups, but it definitely shouldnt be random. At least make it consistant at certain heights.
#prof21
Sorry about the word “broken” english is not my primary language, i didn`t care really, so i just droped a random word. I thought something like top tier or overpowered, whatever.
It’s just plain bad game design.
Good design (Viper)= Really effective, but hard to use.
Bad design (Rufus)= Really effective and easy to use
Small world, man.
I usually wait until shoulder level for ultra.
Lol uniboob.