Busted or Bust, lets bet on who/what ends up being broke

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
181

I guess I’ll chime in on this. Who’ll be a bust in this game? Call me crazy but I think Wesker usage is gonna drop dramatically. Not because of the nerfs he’s got, but because of the buffs around the others. His normal tricks won’t work for half the cast anymore. It’s not gonna be as easy as Pistol-Teleport-Sweep the leg-Air Combo-Samurai Edge with assist-rinse-repeat. Some thought is gonna have to be put into his movements now. That, along with two certain assists being nerfed (The Mayor & The Thief), and he’ll have some company in the basement.

As for who’ll be busted, I’ll just put it like this.

“It is Doom who should be worshiped…”

182

Well…pistol teleport is like shit that only online Wesker should be doing or when they are in XF. It’s a shame that shit is still like actually giving people problems when most of the cast can just duck the gun and hit him out of the teleport with the long recovery frames. Watching the curleh mustache fights yesterday people were still getting hit by H teleport air S’s that should be easy to punish by now. Whenever Wesker ports he always lands in the same distance/place relative but pepole still don’t dash under the shit or air throw the shit like they’re not sure where he’s going to be. Once you get away from the port that totally messes his positioning for teleporting again. Getting hit by XF3 ports…ok fine. Getting hit by assistless, non XF H ports? Obviously that shit is still going to hit people in Ultimate for some reason offline.

Good Weskers don’t port without calling assists first and that’s why J.Wong’s Wesker is much more interesting and solid to watch than the others for me. He never ports without calling Akuma first and assist + teleport is much stronger and safer than gun port. Losing gun port to combo will hurt the bad Wesker players, but it won’t do much to good Weskers. Gun port to press buttons/combo was only good for anti air.

The main issue with Wesker that will bring him down from clear S to A ish at best is the fact that he’s a reset based character that got knocked down to what is said to be about 900k health. Which means he will no longer be the truck that moves like a lamborghini like he was in Vanilla. Your team needed to be able to kill in one combo or you had to turn on XF to kill him off in Vanilla in one combo. Now one combo, do reset, into another combo into super will kill him off easy. No more gun port to combo means he wont shut down aerial movement so easily anymore.

Wesker would probably be up for S tier again if they kept in his gun port combo ability with the air dash nerfs but luckily Capcom was smart and got rid of that.

The other big issue is the nerf to XF3 in general means his XF3 won’t run through entire teams anymore. Making him more manageable when people hurp durp throw him in the back of a team and barely actually use his assist.

He definitely won’t be a bust though. Still has some of the game’s best normals, will still be extremely hard to keep out with assist + teleport games and his gun will still be solid for zoning. The game being more centered around zoning means we’ll probably see more of his projectile counter to get in also. He just won’t have these glaring, unique advantages over most of the other cast anymore.

183

Nemesis - 600-700 bnbs, armored assist, high health. All the tools needed to make scrubs rage.
XF3 Firebrand - might be too much to handle, especially if his helper is out. Blocking this thing online will be insane.
Skilled Vergils - I would hate to fight, you know those ones that unlock his shit early and you don’t know what’s coming
Nova - Nova just looks like he’s going to be owning shit from the getgo

I see a lot of scrubs picking Strider at launch just for the sake of it. Hawkeye and Ghost Rider don’t look that intimidating, PW looks like a complex character that might scare noobs away from picking him. Iron Fist looks like he will be whatever lol.

184

Hulk isn’t really about hoping that you hit something (unless there’s something that’s trying to hit him that shouldn’t be obviously). It’s really centered around the use of his command grab. Most people automatically feel threatened by the armored s.M/H and their tendency is to just block (or better yet, call Haggar/Tron) when Hulk has the freedom to press those. If you can get them to block, great. If they think you’re trying to grab them, they’ll either jump to avoid the ground one, or sit on the ground to avoid the air one, or even better… press a button (enter s.H… s.M is faster but situational). The real problem lies in some matchups in Vanilla (say Magneto w/Jam Session assist) is Hulk will get zoned hard. Disruptor covers the entire screen where Hulk is at his strongest, and Jam Session (like Flame Carpet) is just something Hulk’s huge hurtbox gravitates to. Hulk vs. flame carpet is a 9.5-0.5 matchup in Flame Carpet’s favor. On wakeup, he’s limited to blocking or gamma crushing. In the end, you could be right, though. Even with his buffs (I would’ve liked to see armor on his command grab instead of a damage boost - something I believe he used to have), he may have a little more control of space on the ground, but the real question is just how much will he have in Ultimate? How useful will his new Hyper armored s.H be?

185

Is it hyper armor that the s.H has now or is it 3 hits of armor? 3 points of armor against some characters is like the same as it being hyper armor any way.

Mike Ross’ latest success with Hulk has been just kinda running Hulk’s strong AA assist to keep people off of Storm while he goes in and runs drones to mix them up. Basically like a Haggar that can actually do something worth talking about if he has to actually fight.

When it comes to being a point man Hulk player (usually people that main Hulk), his success will most likely come around if people figure out any extra techniques or general tools to help him get through the lame out. Even with his buffs it’ll basically be one of those situations where he will definitely open you up faster than probably Sentinel or Nemesis once he gets in. It’s just if he didn’t get any real tools to get in I don’t really see much out of him outside of assist status for tourneys with all the shit that could keep him out.

It may get to a point where people just may have to find specific assists to really get Hulk in there. The projectile invincibility on assists like Ghost Rider’s OTG fire blast, Akuma’s tatsu and possibly Ryu’s powered up tatsu could help give Hulk what he needs to get through some of the lame out. Hulk already has an extremely durable projectile that he can use to clear up assists and point projectiles and can cancel it into gamma wave super which also clears shit up nicely and makes people afraid to call assists. Combine that with a solid projectile eating assist and he might finally get the momentum he needs to be a better point character.

186

Projectiles and teleports are really only silly in capcom games (Sorry, I don’t consider MK a real fighting game. Hate me all you want :P). Every other fighting game where teleports and projectiles exist, they are EXTREMELY unsafe, and are only rarely used. In Marvels though, you got beam assists that cover the entire ground while characters get in for free from behind with safe teleports cause of massive hit stun beams, or projectiles in general. Let’s not even include all the stupid invincibility on the characters with beams/projectiles AND/OR teleports. Marvel wouldn’t be marvel without beams and teleports though.

That is why this game needs to give characters like Hulk, Nemesis, Iron fist, etc an ‘invincible safe rolls’. Cap has one now, and combine that with his OTG shield he is easily high A tier. But, then everyone would whine that zoners get pooped on, and blahblahblah.

I don’t care either way, I already play this game in hard mode and do decently. :stuck_out_tongue:

187

My list (I’ll try to keep favoritism to a minimum (WESKER DEE BESS)).

Zero will probably be competing with Viper for best in the game. Basically, not enough nerfs to really impact his ability to kill a team. Viper doesn’t seem to have had many changes at all, and she was already an amazing character, limited only by her execution requirements.

Ghost Rider looks dope, but I don’t think his impact to the balance of the game will be much in the later stages. That said, before people really figure him out, his zoning will be a complete and utter bitch to deal with, especially since he has combos from 80% of the screen away. lol. At the beginning, Ghost Rider will be nuts.

Magneto will definitely stay upper-tier, considering his new abilities and the impact they’ll have on the flow of the match. Speaking of new abilities, Captain America will be used more and actually explored thanks to his returning double jump. The loss of some of his Shield Slash untech time kinda sucks, though.

**Haggar, Tron, **and Hsien-Ko will still be suck tier. No question about that.

**Skrull **and Iron Fist will be sleepers, but I have a lot of hope for them.

**Hawkeye, Nova, Dr. Strange, **and Phoenix Wright all look really, really fucking cool, but right now, I can’t see them being particularly busted except Nova, and maaaaaybe Hawkeye (poison).

Wesker and **Doom **will be the best characters in the game. Especially since they don’t have to build meter for that cunt Phoenix.

I don’t feel like looking at many of the other characters. D:

188

Hulk’s projectile is complete trash, and will always be trash as long as it is a charge move in such a stupid fast paced game. Things like hidden missiles/Plasma beam, Tatsu, Ghost riders stuff as you said are needed for him to be viable. Currently I play as my second team Skrull/Hulk/Doom, and Hulk gets tons of free grabs off missiles.

Nemesis is still going to have way more options than Hulk though. Especially since Nemesis can wave dash. :expressionless:

189

my sources tell me that at least 2 of the other infinites for dante that i found but haven’t exposed still work (though devil trigger reset glitch is still unconfirmed to work since its hard to test and impractical anyways). one of them is even easier to do in ultimate due to a certain something bouncing them higher than before…

190

You I brand ‘tease’.

Seriously tho, do your duty and tip Capcom off. Its within your power to make the game better, which is a rare thing.

191

if seth killian/capcom sends me an early copy of ultimate, then sure

192

Man, that’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I really don’t get people sometimes.

193

Dive kick being faster isn’t the issue. Dive kick effing groundbouncing into you-have-all-day-to-hit-confirm-into-air-loop is the issue. :slight_smile:

194

The thing about Doom is that he was already a very powerful character. He only got minor buffs, but the fact that he got any buffs at all makes him a large threat. He’s a good zoner, a great meter builder, can effectively still one-touch kill most of the cast with a combo that pays for itself (And is now considerably easier to land), and maybe has the three best assists in the game since the only ones better than his in Vanilla got nerfed. He is the master jack of all trades.

195

its not like capcom’s qa is doing any good right now… there’s too much in this game that they let get past them that any half decent member of the community would’ve picked up on if they bothered with real beta tests. right now, i have a much greater incentive to STSFN right now than i would to reveal anything. i would’ve gladly even saved that to use for when i was playing seriously if it weren’t for how incredibly stupid and obviously bannable it is.

196

The thing is, you’re making it worse, and you at most get one or 2 real uses out of each trick before it becomes common knowledge, and then everyone has to deal with the problems until they (hopefully) eventually fix them.

I agree that Capcom’s QA is absurdly poor, its obvious that they started cutting SERIOUS corners about halfway through the game’s development, if not earlier.

197

3 and a half more weeks (or so).

The only assists I see still being clear stronger than his are** Akuma tatsu** (it’s mostly the same…just not braindead hit confirm anymore), Haggar lariat (anybody that completely protects you from mix ups and still sets up hit confirm for combos is still ridiculous) and** Morrigan harmonizer** (a few of the new characters especially could create near S tier teams with her assist).

Morrigan harmonizer will surely go great with all of these characters that can keep you out for a while like Hawkeye and Strange. Now those characters will get pay off like in the old days for wasting time on the clock. ** In Vanilla MVC3 you had to make your money fast or lose but now buying time with the lame outs and right assists should have some big pay off. There will be more opportunity for teams that with an assist like Morrigan’s can stop the other team from making money until they lose. **A team like Hawkeye or Strange/Doom/Morrigan could really be of some serious annoyance factor. Allowing you to do MVC2 style zone and build meter to basically kill people without having to make contact with them. Strider or Vergil/good assist/Morrigan could really tear shit up too. This game may secretly give Morrigan’s time to shine (as assist/anchor any way) with these characters that get buff as shit when they have meter.

The thing with Doom overall is that basically you think about something your team needs…put Doom on it and Doom will make it work REALLY well. Whether the team is offensive or defensive base Doom has something to make your team stronger while being completely capable of tearing down teams with assists on point as well. Not to mention having the most damaging level 1 super when in XF (does twice the damage of non XF level 3’s in XF3). He doesn’t need assists to stay in against advance guards similar to Akuma allowing him to keep the pressure on once he gets in.

There was no other character really like that in Vanilla and Capcom wanted to make sure his point game was as strong as his assist game so now he’s just going to be on top of things in Ultimate for sure. Especially with the nerfs to the original S tiers.

IF SFIV is any indication…the characters that received nothing but buffs and no nerfs usually will blow shit up in the new game.

198

think you’re being too harsh when you say it’s complete trash, it beats Dorm Ball on reaction I believe… something Nemesis can’t do.

199

It shuts down pretty much every non super projectile in the game when it comes to trade situations. Plus cancel into gamma wave super if you see it hit.

200

This thread is just a way for people to bitch about Ultimate without having to go through the trouble of, you know, playing the game first. That said, getting salty about things that haven’t happened to you yet is pretty impressive, so I thought it deserved a shout out.