I’ve always questioned why my techs weren’t working half the time, and hearing about this fix is just disgusting. Leave it to the incompetent programmers and testers at Capcom to release something that’s completely unfinished and glitchy to boot. Don’t kid yourself thinking 1.04 is going to fix anything. Most other characters are getting megaton levels of buffs, while Sagat is getting pretty much nothing. His bad matchups will become even harder to fight, and his favorable matchups won’t be as easy to beat. Repeating the cycle once again, just like the initial shit release of USF4.
I hate USF4, and I miss AE2012 so much. Sure it had its glitches to, but what they’ve done to Sagat in this game is unacceptable. We’ve voiced our thoughts and opinions to Capcom, and the community manager: Combofiend. You think him or Haunts could put in a good word for us?
“Hey, since Ryu is getting a way better fireball game, maybe we can do something for Sagat to”
Of course not, because those idiots are only interested in filling their piggy banks, rather then taking care of the community. Its perfectly acceptable for El Fuerte to keep his beyond retarded and overbuffed Q Bomb, and overbuffed Dudley to stun in two fucking combos because the scrubs think its “hype”. But when all we’re asking for is an upgrade to his Tiger Shot game to compensate for his chicken scratch damage he does, they ignore us.
There is video evidence presented showing the glitchy nature of Sagat’s ultra 1, yet they continue to ignore that to. Are they just idiots, or do they have a legitimate grudge against Sagat players?
They’d rather waste countless hours making “Omega Mode” that is essentially the new Hero and Heralds from UMVC3. It will be dead in 2 weeks, just like H&H died in 2 weeks also. The amount of resources they’ve wasted on this retarded mode, they could’ve spent making the balance better, or upgrading the shit netcode. Doing something to please the fans that supported this franchise for years.
Anyway, I’m sorry for the rant. After the reveal of 1.04, I just needed to vent how frustrated I’ve become with the current state of USF4. I thought when they talked about balance changes, we were going to get some actual meaningful changes. Combofiend has stated over and over that USF4 is “supposed” to be the “optimal” SF4 that people are going to love playing. I’d disagree completely.
Anyway, here is my proposed change list to Sagat that I want to see:
Revert High Tiger Shot to how it was in AE.
Reduce recovery on Low Tiger Shot by 1 frame
Increase hitbox on crouching lightkick slightly. Currently, it whiffs but straight up overlaps the feet of the hurtbox of opponent.
Increase the hitbox on crouching medium kick, so it hits at the end of his toe, and not his ankle. The current hitbox looks unrealistic and dumb.
Make far standing medium punch special cancelable. Giving this move more viability than a half assed poke.
Make close standing medium punch a separate command for anti air purposes (back medium punch would work great)
Far standing lightkick should be special cancelable. Had it in SF2, had it in vanilla SF4. Give back Sagat some real footsie’s
Increase range on Ultra 1, reverting it to how it used to be in previous iterations of SF4. (can keep the damage nerf)
Increased invincibility on anti air Tiger Uppercut. Lots of jumping attacks can outright stuff the startup, giving Sagat an unfavorable trade and leaving him at disadvantage when he reaches the ground, essentially giving the opponent a free mix up.
Bonus change - Make Ex Tiger Knee 0 on block like how it was in the USF4 location test.
Its probably alot to ask, but this would make the optimal and fun to use Sagat that people wanted. It would compensate for the Ultra damage nerfs, the unlisted hidden trade uppercut nerf, and the high step kick nerf also. You wouldn’t see Ryan Hart resorting to other characters, because Sagat wouldn’t be too weak for competitive play.
Am i the only one breathing a sigh of relief that there weren’t any further nerfs?
Oh and I could be a bit of a cynic, but i think uberpro was being sarcastic about the throw frame complaint.
Advice to my tiger brethren…work with what you got. No point flogging a dead horse. oh, and at least U2 can get some screen time now. I almost forgot it was in the game.
I still want the more intimidating taunt buff though…dont get it twisted.
I hear ya X_Cel. Also read the part about Snake eyes beating Ryan Hart 2 - 0. I think the general consensus amongst gat players at this point is… “we’ve been dee jayed, take the L and move on”. If i were to make an analogy it would be akin to being a supporter of the New York Nicks (or Arsenal FC if you’re into soccer)…u can complain about the status quo, but nothing is changing…so just take the little good that comes with the bad.
in other news…I got absolutely wrecked against a Chun li player last weekend, back to the drawing board.
No bro, no sarcasm or cynicism there. I have several replays where i watched myself get thrown on the startup of my throw animation and i always tought it was because our throw range was deceptive in regards to our hitbox.
After all our throw tech window was 2 frames instead of 3 like all the other cast, so we actually had no late tech window
That or we misinterpreting what the change was and instead the forward throw actually had 2 frames of tech on the 3 frames of throw
Yes someone explain this throw tech change to me, if it is what I think it is…it explains a ton of frustrated moments for me over the last 2 years.
Cannon buff is nice, ex shot>Cannon does more damage and uppercut>fadc>step kick>ultra 2 does more damage than Ryus dp>Ultra 1 so its certainly back to being an option.
As I read it, it means that it used to be harder for opponents to tech Sagat’s throws than throws from other characters (one frame less for the opponents to tech).
kinda what i thought it was too, never considered how it would affect teching a throw from Sagat’s end. When looked at it like that, i guess uberpro makes sense.
I think you’ve got it backwards über , I’ve only looked at the change log once but I interpreted that as being opponents had 1 frame less to tech our throws ( therefore is essentially a nerf).
I’ll stick with the King. He’s an average solid mid with better alternatives , but he’s fun. The games too old now for me to worry about shit.
Apparently comparing with the Bison changes it seems so. Still i wonder if the bug goes both ways where the forwad tech throw would also be 1 frame shorter? But meh
Still got the right to complain about the deceptive throw range i guess
Every match involving another fireball character basically comes down to not making a mistake and running the clock. You can’t control shit with Sagat.
I’m not even sure what they want us to do with this character anymore. At this point I’m going to flat out say this version of Sagat is probably the weakest in comparison to the other characters in every edition. At least the first Ultra - there were lots of average characters so being shit wasn’t that bad in a sea of shit. Now that the likes of Ryu and Akuma are getting such powerful plasma buffs they basically invalidate Sagat in every way.
Seeing what they’ve done to Zangief also just proves they don’t actually balance, they just change things and see how it turns out because they are fucking clueless.
I’d be more upset if I actually took the game seriously anymore, but I’m not learning 45 characters worth of frame data every 6 months for them to turn around and patch the shit out of it.
Exactly, is there any reason at all to play Sagat anymore? I just can’t understand why they wouldn’t at least revert High TS, given that Akuma and Ryu received plasma buffs. He still would have been low mid tier, even then…
This is something I’ve been saying for 3+ years. The lifecycle model they’ve got for the game is retarded, because it’s a difficult enough game (for most of us, at least), so to change things so fundamentally every 6 months or so makes it such a struggle. E.g., imagine being an Akuma player and you base your game in vanilla/SSF4/AE around option selects/vortex, and then they come up with DWU and overnight all of that effort you put in (bearing in mind Akuma had lots of character specific setups) is wasted.
It really hit home for me playing a rolento player the other night, where basically about 3 things that were useful in the match, straight up didn’t work anymore.
I put Vanilla Gat on in the training room the other night - it was like coming up for air.
1.04 balancing definitely a direct slap in the face. The only redeeming thing about the update is Edition Select online in endless, and being able to use an actual complete version of Sagat.
At this point, USF4 core game has become a middle school science volcano project in terms of quality and stability. Previous versions of SF4 played much better and felt more stable than this trash. Let’s all hope they don’t ruin SF5 with the lifecycle model that SF4 series has gone through. What a fucking disgrace.
Sagat definitely needed a nerf from Vanilla but they over killed him. He needed a nerf on either his damage or his tools(TK traps etc) but he got both hard.
Now they nerfed his High Tigershot so all his 5-5 matches got worse, all his 6-4 matches got worse, I just don’t get it. The High Tigershot was the one thing that made him very competitive against other FB zoning characters, now there is no way he beats Gouken, Sim, Guile, Poison etc.
These are the buffs Sagat needs to be very good, but fair IMO. I divide it up into 2 sets because giving both would be too cheap…
Set 1:
Revert High Tigershot back
St.lk reverted back to Vanilla
SLIGHT boost to DP damage, 10 or 20 points
Remove Forward Round House trade into Ultra
Set 2:
Revert High TigerShot
Make Sagat’s hard punch DP do near vanilla damage BUT you can’t Fadc it(like ryu).
His damage is so bad, which makes absolutely no sense because he’s hit like a truck in every capcom game he’s been in lol.
Also, why is it that a character with a 5 frame dp does less damage with that DP than characters with 3 frames ones?
