Bringing Knives to a Fistfight! Ibuki Strategy and Match-up Thread

Scampjohnson · April 12, 2011, 11:04pm

You can delay U2 CW from the right range. If you do not delay it just pops him up and then you’re toast. Which unblockables are we referring to? I know the NB, inch 1 frame forward j.lk/j.mk I didn’t realize there were others.

MingoDynasty · April 13, 2011, 1:27am

This made me remember the Ibuki vs Fail Long guide someguy92 posted, quite some time ago (around the time I wrote the Ibuki vs Cammy guide?). Unfortunately, it’s lost somewhere in the Ibuki matchups thread 1.0. Fortunately, I found a copy (dunno if it’s up to date or not) via Google: http://shoryuken.com/f273/can-you-bring-some-waat-aahh-fei-longs-ssf4-matchup-thread-252908/index3.html

Can you bring some WAAT-AAHH? The Fei Long's SSF4 matchup thread

Fei Long vs Ibuki, Ibuki vs Fei Long
current version Oct.10 2010
Match Overview
Both Characters Normal Objective is to get inside and use their strong upclose damaging bread n butters to get the advantage and use the strong momementum to carry them to victory. The Risk vs Reward with Fei Long getting combo’d is much worst because of Ibuki’s numerous ways to combo into an untechable knockdown and start her amazing okizeme game allowing her to win off one knockdown. Fei Long has the undisputed advantage at the footsies range as Ibukis midrange normals is quite bad.

Max range(opposite ends of the screen) Advantage-Ibuki
Overview-Not much reason for either character to be here except meter gain for Ibuki

Ibuki- You have the slight advantage at this spot only because you can build meter much faster and safer at this range. If Fei is allowing you to just sit their and Instant Air Kunai or spam Raidas to build meter then go for it. However Do not under any instance go for Tsuijigoe naked or + Kunai as you will get Rekka’d on reaction.

Fei Long- Little to no reason to be at this spot except to run out the time or turtle with a huge life lead. If Ibuki is dumb enough to spam jump back Kunai at this range then walk her to the corner.

Mid Range(footsies)
Overview- The default range and the Ibuki gets the short end of the stick as she has to work twice has hard to stay ahead.

Ibuki- The best poke is max range cr.strong as because of the deceptive hitbox that reaches past the limb and vulnerable hitbox and the huge amount of active frames it can easily stuff Fei’s Cr.strong and Cr.fierce and you’ll be option selecting into Tsumuji landing you an untechable knockdown where you can start your okizeme game. If your in range you can use Ibuki’s faster st.Forward and option select it into Tsumuji. You want to get the untechable knockdown so pokes that can’t be combo’d into untechable knockdown have no use so no F+Short or Cr.Forward and the like.

Fei Long- This is the most preferred range for Fei. With his Faster Better normals, he’ll win at this range taking out the glass character that is Ibuki hit by hit. Cr.Fierce has its uses at max range WHIFF PUNISHING MOVES ON REACTION. Ibuki’s Cr.Strong and St.Forward have enough startup and recovery to whiff punish. You do not want to throw this move out at random as it can be beaten out of startup and hit out of recovery into an Untechable Knockdown. St.Fierce is a go to poke dealing 120 damage and trading heavily in your favor and add to that Ibuki’s low 900 health. You should be looking to trade or beat her normals with this one. Cr.Forward will beat Ibuki’s Cr.Strong. clean because Ibuki extends her leg forward to stick out her arm and Fei’s Cr.Forward goes under it beating it clean.

Close Range(Where BnBs start flying)
Overview-Its very hard to say definitively who wins at this range but Ibuki does more damage and is more dangerous then Fei at this range even with Fei’s faster normals.

Ibuki- You’ll obviously want to use your BnBs to combo into your untechable knockdown or use throw. Save the Launchers and Resets for showing off at another time. Unfortunately because of Fei’s Hitbox you cannot combo st.jab after TC4 but he is Tsumuji Loopable(1 time) for 376 damage and untechable knockdown. Another advantage of Fei’s hitbox is TC4 will not whiff unless at the absolute tip and St.jab will not whiff either. Ibuki’s BnB in itself is a frame trap so if any button is pushed inbetween then you can get your counter hit combo into untechable.

Fei Long-You can definitely hold your ground at this spot because of Fei’s faster normals. Ibuki’s only 3 framer is standing far/close jab but can both be combo’d into an untechable knockdown. Because of Ibuki’s hitbox when she is crouching, your St.Jab will whiff so you have to go to your 1 framer to combo into Rekka. Ibuki is awful in the corner so Rekka combo into the corner is worth it. If your not comfortable with your one framers at this range then Cr.Strong to Cr.Jab xx Rekka works also.

On Knockdown(Okizeme)
Overview-Ibuki has a better Okizeme game but is free-er on wakeup. Fei has a better wakeup game but worst on Okizeme

Ibuki- Fei is fairly free to the Vortex. If he tries to Chicken Wing out of there. You can easily reaction Neckbreaker him and bring him right back in. Ambiguous crossup work well to(think super jumps). Off techable knockdowns Fei can Flame Kick FADC with 2 bars to get out of there or put it in his favor. Your backdash is far enough to make it whiff completely. Beat Chicken wing Free after startup with Agemen Dash Kazegirl or EX Kazegirl if he pulls it on wakeup. He can Focus attack the meaty kunai so be wary of this option.
**
Fei Long**- Ibuki is very free off wakeup. She needs 3 bars to make her EX Kazegirl safe. She has a 50/50 guessing that can be completely beaten by dashing forward under her kunai if she decides to throw it or not. Her Short is 4 frames so crouch teching is easy to get counter hit and not easily comboable. Don’t worry about her command dash because it has zero properties so meaty attacks which it should be anyways will beat it free. Mix in meaty Tenshin if you feel she is gonna block. Ibuki has a VERY good backdash so use Option Select Rekka/ChickenWing/Ultra 1 to catch it.

Notes
Ultra of Choice
Fei Long-Meh either goes. You can Ultra 2 Tsumuji and any Tsumuji after St.Mk/Cr.Mp but Lk isn’t a true blockstring as well as the 3rd hit going low.
Ibuki-Either I guess. You can Ultra 1 lk/mk CW or stuff tenshins. Ultra 2 for Combo Utility.
Ibuki gets hit by CW 3 times after FlameKick
Kunai is very unsafe and have years of recovery time upon landing. If badly thrown can be punished with Rekka.
Hien(Penguin Kick) is very punishable and should never be used ever.
Rekka Badly spaced should be combo’d into an untechable knockdown.
NeckBreaker is -15 on block. Punish hard and true. Not with a throw.
Raida on block should always be punished on block. EX the safest version is -9. All other version is at least -14. Invincible to throws.
Tsuijigoe should never be used
Use Super Jumps for ambiguous crossups but abuse it and get hit by an EX FlameKick for 200.
Neither characters are free to jumpins and get damaged for around 200 for doing so.
SJC Ultra 2 isn’t much of a good option except as a finisher.

Been meaning to do this. Wasn’t going to because of AE but then thought I can just change accordingly.

Most important info is probably the midrange pokes, imo.

I don’t play Fail Long, but I figure his U2 is better vs Ibuki to stop unblockables. Well actually you can still bait the counter ultra with empty jump, vortex, other kunai setups, etc., but at least it’ll make Ibuki think twice I suppose.

Rahontsiiostha · April 13, 2011, 2:19am

adding that to the op

littlesushi · April 13, 2011, 5:27am

You need to play one of the Bison’s on my friends list lol. But if anything, I think Fei is a little harder to win with cause you at least have to do a quarter circle forward motion and shit.

Dumbass characters.

MingoDynasty · April 13, 2011, 5:30am

Unblockable safe jump solves the Bipson matchup as well.

littlesushi · April 13, 2011, 5:50am

Either everyone I play knows about these unblockable setups. Or I just can’t execute them. I don’t seem to be getting hit by them when I play as Ryu against any Ibuki player either.

Mingo, do you ever get on Live? I tried adding you a bit ago but you never signed on and my friends list filled up again lol.

Niko9193 · April 13, 2011, 5:52am

I play dc hustle, mike g and andre. That match is soo much simpler because bison is a charge and you could force your opponent to move forward or do something stupid just by standing outside of lk scissor range. Its not easy but definetly better then fei long.

It just seems fei longs spacing and normals beats ours:(

Sent from my Thunderbolt

littlesushi · April 13, 2011, 5:58am

I’ve played those 3 various times. Honestly, the one I got is far scarier than any of those 3. Not to talk shit about them, but honestly I don’t even remember the other 2’s Bison’s even being a big deal with the exception of Andre (assuming he is HiroEmp).

Niko9193 · April 13, 2011, 6:05am

Nah thats jeron

Sent from my Thunderbolt

littlesushi · April 13, 2011, 6:28am

Oooh my bad. You guys spoiled with all those arcades and shit Anyways, I’m pretty excited for AE. I’m going to CEO a couple days after AE drops so I’m gonna need to be researching Yun and Yang videos lol.

Niko9193 · April 13, 2011, 6:49am

Theres nothing to research its impossible to beat the twins lol. Wait till you fight Makoto and Geif hahaha. Makoto is vanilla Sagat

Sent from my Thunderbolt

littlesushi · April 13, 2011, 7:28am

Yeeeeeeeeeeah I already have a general idea of how amazing she’s gonna be since my friend Flash loves to blow her up every time he comes over.

Anyone know if they fixed EX Spin kicks randomly not hitting anymore in AE?

MingoDynasty · April 14, 2011, 4:55am

Air discussing general Ryu tactics: [media=youtube]tcMVI-7cn04[/media]

Skip to 50:00 where he talks about using Ryu’s far.st.LK to change Ryu’s hitbox (move his foot out of the way or something? lol) to make Bipson’s cr.Lk whiff. Can Ibuki do the same thing with her st.LK or f+MK or f+HK? Sorry I can’t test right now but maybe someone else can.

Rahontsiiostha · April 14, 2011, 5:53am

^ st.lk is the way to go. it will either go over or counter hit the cr.lk from bison, at 5 frames sta f+rt-up with will also beat out st.RH and random psycho crushers. basically, if you can press it on the first/second frame after blockstun st.lk will beat almost everything bison can do. over head and bonsho kick have too much start-up tp be of much use here.

littlesushi · April 14, 2011, 8:20am

Shouldn’t standing jab just beat it?

Nevermind it gets raped.

I usually just do her lk->mk target combo into leg swipes or dash if I’m in the corner.

Rahontsiiostha · April 14, 2011, 8:24am

no b/c bisons cr.lk will hit you if u use standing jab since bison will be crouching.

Niko9193 · April 16, 2011, 1:46pm

FYI you can get out of Gen’s anti-air ultra with super just like you can with T. hawk excpt it will trade and only one kunai will hit:( Anyways its better than eating that ultra

MingoDynasty · April 16, 2011, 10:25pm

Not sure where to put this so I guess I’ll put it here: after some testing, it appears Ibuki’s f+MK overhead and f+HK are airborne at ~frame 3.

Test 1: cl.st.LP , f+MK. Try to throw with Rose (character with farthest throw range?) in between. cl.st.LP is 0 on block. Rose’s throw whiffs.
Test 2: f+HK , f+MK. f+HK is -1 on hit. Rose’s throw connects.
Test 3-4: same as above but with f+HK instead of f+MK. Same results.
All this was tested using turbo.

Edit: more testing.
So I was playing around with Ibuki’s hk.cd, and if in the rare situation you’re playing Guile and you want to safe jump him but you don’t want him to be able to flash kick xx FADC, you can use option select hk.cd to make it completely whiff, and still get the free punish.

Edit2: did we ever talk about Ibuki’s safe jump crossup vs Chun? Sometimes it crosses up sometimes it doesn’t. It seems to depend on when we do the j.HP. Also it seems like we should always block as if we were going to cross up, since the EX sbk hits both sides, but if we don’t cross up, Ibuki sits in between Chun’s crouch so the EX sbk totally whiffs.

MingoDynasty · April 18, 2011, 6:14am

Niko you said you play a lot of good Bipsons right? How the hell do pressure him on wakeup when he has tons of meter for EX PC? I can only think of option select EX kazegiri and U2 punish, but I don’t think it’s enough.

Rahontsiiostha · April 18, 2011, 8:34am

here are a few option selects that motempest posted a while back. Maybe they can help u against bison. also, after playing against you with my ass alternate characters the other day i realize that maybe I need to take the time to learn more characters other than ibuki.

"With meter Bi§son is vulnerable to a few key safejumps and option selects. Some of these are distance dependant so keep that in mind.

Post Neckbreaker/tsumuji low after TC4 (Use c.mk/c.mp to time your safe jumps for best results)

Jump in lk> QCF hk+mk (HK command dash OS TC safejump)

Pros:

must be blocked high twice
dashes through EX scissors, EX Head stomp, EX Devils Reverse, U2 safe, U1 safe with option to punish his recovery on reaction on all except ex scissors unless near the corner.
catches backwards teleport leaving you in prime position for a full combo
if you have EX NB/Ultra 2 it is possible to catch forward teleport during it’s recovery on reaction
upon wiff of the lk, mk will not come out making it unpunishable by all of Bipsons reversals if you opt to not OS

notes: This is best used after you’ve taught the opponent not to use EX PC by using OS EX Kazagari

Cons:

loses to EX Psycho Crusher though you only get hit by the tail end leaving you both at neutral space wise upon tech.
not too damaging for ibuki, but costs you momentum.

Instant air Kunai

Pros:

makes all EX moves wiff
ambigous
if kuani is thrown correctly (somewhere between 11 o’clock & 12 o’clock) EX reversals cannot be autocorrected to hit ibuki
forward teleport will result in auto correct oddly enough, and leave bison right infront of ibuki begging her to punish him
catches all non perfect reversal timings with crossup kunai
good for pressuring Bison near the corner as a forward teleport escape will result in putting him back in the corner

Cons:

loses to Ultra 1/2 outright
Can be hard to capitalize on bisons recovery if he uses EX PC/Scissors with a punish…though you can get good positioning

note: IMO best option until Bison gains Ultra. Best reward for lowest risk

[Crossup] j.lk > QCB mk+hk (OS EX kazagari)

Pros:

2 hit must be blocked high twice
Beats EX Autocorrect PC/Scissors, catches the tip of EX headstomp if timed correctly even if it’s air controlled
messes up Ultra 1/2 motion

note: Basically covers all the same bases as regular safejump OS EX Kazagari with the added bonus of catching EX headstomp (forward OS loses to EX headstomp)

Cons:

Teleport allows Bison to punish pretty easily just the same as regular safe jump EX Kazagari OS
If timed poorly, can get rocked by Bisons Ultra 1

Empty Jump/HK Command Dash low/meaty crossover

Pros:

Eliminates all of bisons options Except EX headstomp, Devils reverse and Ultra 2…though they all can be blocked/avoided and punished horribly
Ultra 2/EX headstomp/Devils Reverse can be delt with with MP OS Command Dash and EX Kazagari if timed correctly (EX Kazagari Invincibility frames beat out Bisons)

Cons:

Not as ambigous
Meaties Can get eaten by Auto Corrects if you are too late with your crossover