Bringing Knives to a Fistfight! Ibuki Strategy and Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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My safe jump vs shotos? Not 100% safe, since I was able to autocorrect dp a few times. But still good enough imo if you train your opponent not to try autocorrect dp on wakeup.

neckbreaker , walk forward a few frames , j.MK

Edit: it turns out, it seems you can actually EX tatsu out. You can also do regular tatsus to get out but those are easily neckbreaker option selected. But then again if you neckbreaker os for tatsus, you won’t be able to punish whiffed dp’s like mp.shoryu.

I made a video of it. I’ll post it shortly.
Edit2: here it is - [media=youtube]aujEIytQhWw[/media]

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Posted the Coos Coos unblockable set-up in the OP. I’ll add more safejump set-ups as I later after I test them again to be certain they work.

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Coos’s unblockable seems to be the same as my finding, except he uses a whiffed lp (I’m assuming for timing) and j.LK. But j.MK can cross up as well so why not just use that?

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^Makes sense let me test that out

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ok thx rahon

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I need some peoples opinion on there outlook on ibukis:

Do you feel she has to be rush down 100% of the time? -I do.
Is she more of a mix up master or get your best bnb/dmg output to get that knockdown and just creative w vortex?

I’m unsure of how I want to “progress” with her sort of speak. I need to have some form of goal or goals to work to get better w her and its this stump that I’m stuck at. Not sure how she is meant to be played at high levels. She’s not concrete.

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This isn’t the general discussion thread… but whatever.

No, but if given the opportunity to rushdown/pressure, I don’t see why you wouldn’t take it.

If you’re asking if Ibuki has to be in all the time to win, you already know the answer. We all know Ibuki doesn’t have the best keep away game, and we all know she doesn’t have the best normals to use at midrange. But Ibuki is the kind of character that can down her opponent in 2-3 mixups. That’s what you should focus on. Each time you get in on your opponent, you should make it count. And of course, never let your opponent go, if possible.

Imo, mixup master. Yeah you can use vortex as your bnb mixup, but against good players, or other Ibuki mainers, or players that simply know the vortex as well as you, it won’t work very well. When your vortex option gets taken away, you need to have some backup plan(s).

Try rewatching replays of yourself and analyze/reflect/etc. Why did you do the things you did? What else could you have done? Why did your opponent do the things he did? Would another opponent have played differently?

You know all of Ibuki’s options, and I’m assuming you’ve already mastered them. Now just try to figure out how best to apply them.

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ok lets get some matchup stuff going again l8tly ive been having problems with chun li and el furete my problem vs chun li is trying to rush her down because she can keep me away with her walk speed and amazing pokes and her fireball hanzansho sweep mixups i just focus the mixups after fireball mostly but the main problem is just getting past her defense in general and el furete i just need help trying to make him scared to do that stupid running back and forth stuff sometimes i try to neckbreaker it but its not always a good idea and is there a way not to get hit by that grab when he spins around ur neck

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Hazanshu is quite punishable. If Chun is being very predictable with it, FA dash up and U1 or TC4.

What about Chun’s defense gives you problems? Her pokes or her EX sbk/backdash?

Against El Fuerte I’d recommend playing as patient as possible. It’s not a good idea to force knockdowns with random neckbreakers. When Elf is doing his vortex against you, wakeup jump gets you out of his tortilla (“grab when he spins around your neck”) and FA is a decent option against his tostada and slide. Against a good Elf though, you don’t want to be predictable with your wakeup options else he’ll reaction punish with U2.

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her ex kicks aren’t to much of a problem i just manage to block those but i forgot to mention i also have a hard time with viper i don’t know the name of her moves but is she safe with the dashing electric punch move both regular and ex?

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C.Viper’s Thunder Knuckles are -2/-1 on block respectively for lp/mp versions. Yeah she’s pretty much safe after doing these. You can try U1 but I don’t think the spacing will let you.

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so how would u fight one that loves to pressure or spam that crap and it might be me but im pretty sure recovers from burning kicks fast or might be safe on that too on block atleast i think thats wat the prima guide website said i cant remember maybe i read it wrong but if shes safe on that too thats just ridiculous

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After some more testing, and playing against some decent-good Viper (around 4000PP for comparison) as well as Wolfkrone’s Viper…

-lp.TK is completely safe, whether spaced or not
-point blank mp.TK is U1 punishable, but if used during midrange like cr.MK xx mp.TK, it’s most likely not punishable
-Wolfkrone’s rushdown is gdlk and ridiculous
-My 4000PP Viper guy looooves to take advantage of EX seismo’s invincibility, by doing mp.TK , EX seismo. If he does this, it seems we have to take risks to counter it, nevermind trying to read it. Our best options are:
—nj.MK , cr.HK (fairly safe, but Viper may 2x hp.TK you)
—command dash (not very safe if Viper follows up with another cr.MP xx mp.TK)
—neckbreaker (beats EX seismo and backdash, but will lose to cr.MP xx mp.TK followup, and will get ultra-ed if blocked)
—backdash (gives up any sort of pressure/counter, but is your safest option)
—st.LP option select U1 (difficult to do, requires ultra, will not work unless you are 100% sure he’s going to do EX seismo; ie: if he does backdash then your option select ultra will still come out)
—maybe st.LP and reaction block if you see EX seismo?

-Viper does not seem to have exceptional range on her normals (and I think her normals are fairly slow). I think our cr.MP/st.MK will outrange everything she has. To compensate for this, it seems Capcom gave her a couple safe-on-block specials (Thunder Knuckle, Burn Kicks). Some theory fighter here, but maybe if your spacing was gdlk you could sit at max range cr.MP and spam it all day.
-I’m really at a loss at what to do vs Viper’s bk mixup and pressure game. It’s not as damaging as our vortex, but even after like a ft20 vs my Viper friend, I have yet to figure that shit out.

Hitbox annoyances:

  1. far.st.LP whiffs on Viper crouching, but “closer” far.st.LP won’t. In other words, stick to cr.LP , st.MK. Or st.MP , st.LP , st.MK.
  2. TC4 also whiffs on Viper crouching, but not if she’s blocking. If she’s blocking, you can only do the 3hit version of TC4.

On another note, I did test the two unblockable setups on Viper and they seem to work. I only had time to test blocking though, so I dunno if she can get out with a reversal, like EX seismo feint or something.

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wow she seems pretty ridiculous to me it sounds like as of right now unless the viper player messes up we have little chance of beating her and she can almost do anything she wants for free

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Do you wuts funny Mingo…that i am VERY VERY experienced in this match with Both Adon and Ibuki thnx to Frankie and others for there awsm viper…like the seriously the Hardest Matches are the one am VERY experienced in except for Honda cause seriously i simply cant find anyone good to spare with :S.

i got some tips you MIGHT find em useful.

General:
1-Never Jump on Viper cause her FP.thunder knuckle will always Either hit or trade. (Anti Kunai as well)

2-Backdash with IBUKI do wonders, Escapes Sesimo

3-Vipers normals doesnt Usually stuff…Ibuki stuff viper with cr.mp (thunder knuckle on wake up) as well as other stuff. St.mp and st.mk stuff’s vipers f+mp as well as in general her normals

4-slide easily under her Flaming kicks as well as COmmand dash.FK in certain full screen or mid Situation (not effective).Command dash only when u know she’s doin a flamming kick, doesnt work on wake up game as well

5-Kazigiri EX DOESNt auto correct or Punish Flamming kick on wake up nor Raida catches those shit…mind game block or Focus. as for blocked Flame kick (LK or MK one when Close) u can punish Viper with U1 or U2 right after blocking…specially that it catches Thunder knuckle spam after this flaming kick attack, which is VERY useful in my opinoin

6-Pressure Viper and she wont be able to speak! Vortex with cross over LK into Option select Neckbreaker evades Thunder knuckle.FP and punish it with a neckbreaker…if blocked or hit then u have another chance for some mind games

7-Tsumuji’s are very Dangerous to use!! she can punish mk, and RH tsumuji with a LOT of stuff…so watch it. Dont forget that she can safe FACD after those shit…so she will be always safe. bait with LK tsumuji is fun though as a block string…one thunder knuckle FP mistake and flips the vortex re enters

8-Watch her trick of thunder knuckle LP or MP into Back dash

9-Watch her Nuetral Jump MK(of FK…cant remember but had a VERY long hitbox) cause it’s A BITCH!! stuff a LOT of shit…lol so annoying

10-Neckbreaker Passes through Regular Sesimo only NOT EX!! though as on frame start u can catch any…so that’s why it’s good as option select specially on wake up

11-OPtion select jump backward.forward or on wakeup to Neckbreaker makes Viper stop spamming Thunder knuckle FP and sesimo. Neck breaker goes through Sesimo regular only as well as this option select goes under thunder knuckle FP

12-VIPER STUNS EASILY!!! OMG with her stun Damage :S so stupid lol…so watch it cause one loop of Thunder knuckle, and a combo = Dizzy alrdy >< lol…so lame (add a cross up mind game flaming kick)

13-ofcourse u can easily Focus Flame kick thing and sesimo…but as an ibuki player where i use focus dash forward a little more often than any other char, this is PAIN to do in that case if viper spaming sesimo and EX to waste meter.

14-Ibuki’s Frame trap, Cl.st.mp into st.fk~sjc IS VERY VERY usefull against Viper …in my opinion…unless if viper spaming FP.TK. any other knuckle will hit trade with st.fk

Mingo Quotes:
–neckbreaker (beats EX seismo and backdash, but will lose to cr.MP xx mp.TK followup, and will get ultra-ed if blocked)
Nope dude! it really doesnt catch EX sesimo due to it being a homing move…though the backdash u can, but u have to be somehow predicting this backdash cause she can EASILY massivley punish a blocked NeckBreaker.

hmm cant remember anything else…but i think this match is like 6 - 4 Viper favour in my Opinion. Viper so OP man i swear!! she’s simply Un stopable with her MINDLESS easy mind games :S

PS: u did awsm against Wolf man…i was cheering for you to go with Cammy. u actually did awsm, though SADLY wolf was your first matchup and single elimination is lame in this case lol

hmm i can do a COMPLETE write up for Viper to be honest…wanna help me in that? or actually, i work with u in some test, write ups or small vids about viper matchups? though the last time i played Ibuki was from ages and i do wanna get back to maining her to be honest.
if your interested hit me up man

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6/10/11/etc.: option selecting to punish Viper’s wakeup options appear to be tricky. It’s not just hp.TK that you have to worry about, it’s EX seismo feint. She’ll use the invincibility on it to avoid your jump attack and then feint to recover in time to block your option select.

  1. She can punish tsumujis? With what?

It does catch EX seismo since neckbreaker will catch her before the EX seismo actually becomes active.

Yeah I got pretty hype that I beat Wolfkrone with my Cammy, even if it was only one match. Plus it looked like he was playing super srs, compared to the other players he bodied, like trolling that Boxer player with 10+ throws in a row.

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Ahh that’s true…though doin the Feint Seisimo will make her get hit with the jump attack, right? in that case ur still safe…EX sesimo is the problem in that case lol.

  1. punish it with EX sesimo or Simple thunder knuckle FP (usually will go through but i remember or recall it being trade hit? both good for her anyways, in corner she can smiply hit anther TK.fp into ultra ><)…she can punish all Tsumuji’s last hit on block except LK.Tsumuji unless if it’s Reaction (like EX tsumuji)…as well as she will be completely safe after blocking any Tsumuji string, she will simply TK.LP or MP where they are ANti all Ibuki’s Options (even back dash as i remember? back dash doesnt work for Adon, so am not sure bout this).
    dont forget u cant block string Tsumuji lk. into St.lp as either block string or combo due to Viper bein small? (i think so, unless it’s direct Tsumuji lk or st.mk into tsumuji LK)…so in both case she has the advantage to be completely safe after to be honest.

Ibuki’s Ultra 2 Punish’s TK’s spam…U1 catches normal ofcourse but i remember TK’s catch Ibuki’s U1

PS: Raida, nor EX kazigiri nor anything else anti Viper TK’s mp/FP (thats form wut i remember)…for god sake it trades with Adon FK.Rising Jag lol

-It does catch EX seismo since neckbreaker will catch her before the EX seismo actually becomes active:
Ya it does, that’s why am telling u it’s a good Option select. though, that’s not wut i meant.
Like put Viper on training and let her Spam Different Regular Sesimo…Neckbreaker Pass through the hit effect with neckbreaker…so wither on reaction or not, it pass’s Safely due to the couple of frame recovery Viper have after doin them. though if on reaction (lets say ur mid screen) and viper did SEsimo EX then when u do neckbreaker the EX sesimo will hunt u down half the way.

i just tried it right now to make sure to be honest…err if u didnt get wut am tryin to say it’s pretty much cause my english sux lol having a Tiny bit hard time tryin to explain this part actually lol.

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I have trouble seeing how EX seismo (29f startup) and hp TKnuckle (7f startup) can punish tsumujis (-4 on block).

Trade? How do you punish something but end up trading?

Yes I know you can’t tsumuji loop Viper. I’m the one that made the tsumuji loop thread.

How do you punish TKnuckle with U2? Do you mean random U2?

You can reaction neckbreaker vs Seismos? Yeah okay… glhf with that. Or are you forgetting that Viper can also simply feint all of her Seismos…?

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Dude, the last hit of the Kick man…like u know what i mean , right ? :S…like any other DP char can DP from the third kick,same for viper…and if u tried to spam something after she Block Tsumuji you will eat TK.FP (wither it will hit trade or TK.FP will own u…like for example, try doin after a string of blocked Tsumuji a st.FK if ur too close…TK.fp will hit trade with this kick and knockin u down)…so what am sayin is Viper TK.fp is Like ryu’s Shoryu…it’s that good.
also remember wut u did for example yesterday? the U2 frame trap after MK tsumuji? so yah…like u got wut i mean :S? am just sayin basics lol, some chars cant punish this kick while others can…C.viper can EASily punish u with Massive combo damage with something as Easy as FP.TK

-the U2 punishment, yes punishing Random with Randoms…dont u notice that Mainly Viper is all random? (considering the fact she’s not feiting)… one of the sequence viper always do is, Mp (Feint TK), cr. MP, TK.lp…right? if viper tried to do another Block String TK.mp, she will eat U2 in her face making any scrub Vipers not spamming TK’s recklessly…like just an idea, ABC stuff ya know. If u tried to DO U1, TK.FP> U1 (that’s why i brought this subject)
dont forget her TK.mp is REALLy good.

-The Sesimo…not at all…one of the things that Vipers always do (OR i see doin)…even Wolf krone did that shit yesterday on u. Max or Mid distance, Spam Sesimo (usually 1 seisimo Regular into Feint, and then Sesimo EX or another regular)…Neckbreaker PASSES through a Regular Seisemo EFFECT! the ground splash doesnt hurt neckbreaker cause neck breaker moves fast…though EX splash Effect can HUNT down the NEckbreaker, NB cant pass through the Splash Effect.
this example is EXACTLY like this
maybe st.LP and reaction block if you see EX seismo? (u posted this)… This i see as Impossible…lol due to Invincibility frame viper has, so it’s the same basic concept. Stuff and idea’s ya know. also the reason why i brought this is because I REALLY believe OS NB is very useful against Viper…so this example is like to show u the NB is aint bad at all in some cases against Viper.
if it’s bout the feint, will it’s not like she can cancel her Sesimo on REACTION with a feint ya know…the feint input must be done as fast as possible to cancel it, making it as if it’s a special move by itself…by means she will either feint or not! so if she didnt, then she will eat a NB if it’s regular (31 frame recover and active 8).

again i find this Matchup HARD from the start…i believe VIper owns ibuki. though it doesnt means that there are Those small tweeks u can do

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—maybe st.LP and reaction block if you see EX seismo?

sorry for the double post…but actually ur right bout this Mingo! thnx