Bringing Knives to a Fistfight! Ibuki Strategy and Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
201

This actually got me thinking. When your opponent is low health (below 50%), does the scaling occur after the ultra or during the ultra?

According to Eventhubs, damage reduction is
-5% if 50% or lower hp
-10% if 25% or lower hp
-25% if 15% or lower hp

Let’s take U1 for example. It does 501 dmg. Does this mean, if your opponent (let’s say Ryu) is at 500 hp, the 501 dmg becomes scaled to 475.95 dmg? Whereas if Ryu was at 501 hp, the ultra would outright kill him due to zero scaling?

If this is the case, then U1 would be the far better ultra for punishes since it would also avoid dmg scaling when your opponent is low health. For example:

Ryu is at 440 hp, so all dmg is reduced by 5%. You do TC4 (200 dmg) but it’s reduced to 190 dmg, this brings him down to 250 hp, so now all dmg is reduced by 10%. Now you SJC U2, but thanks to dmg scaling, it does 281 dmg instead of 469 dmg. And then factor in the 10% low hp dmg scaling, it actually only does 252 dmg, just barely enough to kill him. If your U2 wasn’t fully stocked, Ryu would probably survive. On the other hand, if you had U1 and it was just a sliver away from fully stocked, it would still outright kill Ryu.

Is my math fighter correct?

How is U2 useful vs T. Hawk that U1 isn’t? Am I missing something?

Uh… you’re comparing Ibuki’s **knockdown setups **to other characters’ ultra setups… if you wanted to compare it this way, she also has a guaranteed way to land U2 without any meter with SJC, off of almost anything.

Why do Cammys do hooligan setups if your opponent can “just pick up and learn that”? Why do Sakuras do EX tatsu , j.LK and cross under/fake cross under? It’s not “guaranteed lame” or “annoying.” In fact it’s probably just asking to get reversaled in the face.

The real answer is to keep the mixups fresh. Cammy has lots of options on your wakeup besides hooligan, like j.LK crossup, safe jump-ish CStrike, crossup CStrike, or plain meaty attacks on your wakeup. Sakura has lots of options after EX tatsu, such as j.HK, j.HP, delayed j.HP, st.LK, cr.HK, all of which can be followed with a dash or not. Or she could otoshi, or she could not EX tatsu at all and just end her combo with a sweep or hp.dp.

See where I’m getting at? It’s not one single setup that their entire mixup game hinges on, it’s multiple setups and the fact that most opponents will not want to do anything but block after getting hit with a new mixup every time. Now compare that with the fact that most Ibukis will neckbreaker, followed by the same repetitive vortex, and then wonder why their mixup game is lackluster or why they’re not winning.

202

I think that you get a free u2 after a blocked condor dive.Maybe you can dash and u1 too but i haven’t checked that out.

Sakura is much better than that.She really doesn’t need those kind of mixups to win.They’ve become stale since vanilla came out.Probably jhp or jhk(espcecially in the corner) can be more ambiguous and cr hk which gives you a knockdown are the better ones.but the others like st lp cross under or non cross under ,jlk cross under or non crossunder are what people expect.So sakura needs to block and bait a reversal.But top players like Uryo do not rely on those kind of mixups,which now have become gimmicks.

203

Yeah man, that is the giant problem with her u2. Unless that shit is fully stocked…its just not worth it. With U1…it seems worth it all the time because the dmg scaling and safety of it is just…better. Like, Ibuki can still do fine with u1 against projectile characters such as gouken, sagat, ryu, guile, etc.

The problem with her u2 is that it really doesn’t do much other than do instant corner positioning. IMO, it is a viable part of her game because it adds another element of surprise to her game to combo into it and allows her to do something different…but i haven’t seen many viable situations to use it.

A great example of it being fail would be you are trying to do TC4 into ultra at the end of the round to cut off vortex and take the round but you notice you don’t have full ultra…they won’t die. In a sense due to scaling you’re going to do the same dmg output as TC4 to NB because that ultra is not full.

You compare her ultra to cammy, rog, ryu, etc and it just…sucks.

204

Yeah I know but I just wanted to illustrate that more options = better.

205

My biggest prob with ibuki besides her lack of high ptiority pokes is her shitty on block offensive game. Other than those 2 things she’s an awesome character to me. Her biggest problem is the sf4 engine… To be realistic. Wish they would have put her in mvc3 instead of boring ass viper.

Sucks that viper made it in that game, I hate that character with an obsession.

-dime

206

Easy U2 punish after blocked Condor Dive. You cannot dash in and do U1 for full animation.

207

To answer Mingos question. Scaling due to health changes for every hit. Say if the first scaling occurs at 500 health and it is a reduction of 90% (just making up numbers). If my heath is at 501 and I receive 50 damage then my resulting health is 451 because my initial health was not in the scaling region. If I receive two hits for 25 a piece then the first hit will land for 25 and the second hit will land for 23 because the second hit was in the scaling region.

So in an ultra that lands something like 20+ hits each hit will be scaled by how ever much health the opponent had prior to that specific hit. That is why Ultras who do all their damage in two or three hits are actually more damaging ultras because they do something like 300 damage before the reduced region so the overall damage is greater.

208

Yeah Izuna as you said. Just tested u1 dash doesnt punish blocked condor dive.U1 though punishes blocked condor spire but so does SJC u2.So u2 is the way to go for the hawk mu.

How can you say that man?.You have an ultra that you can combo into from almost every normal,no need for meter and the damage is not that bad.No when you compare it to ryu’s ,cammy’s or rog’s, they suck.Ryu’s srk fadc ultra and cammy’s cannon spike fadc into ultra do less than 400 damage and near to ibuki’s crlp>stlp>stmk>sjc u2 combo.Their maximum ultra damage in general is a little less than 500, when Ibuki’s sjc u2 can go well over 500.Please stop crying about u2’s damage,it’s not bad if you compare it to most of the ultras in the game

209

I think that viper fits into mvc3 very well (at least from the vids i saw).And tbh i can’t think how ibuki could fit into that game at all

210

I always thought U1 could punish blocked Condor Dives. What exactly was the problem, is THawk too far away, or does he recover in time, or what?

211

Recovers in time.
To be more specific:U1 can punish condor dive on block,but you only get the red orb.If you dash u1 he has already recovered.So you never get the full animation of u1.So it’s not worth it for 274 damage.

212

Shoryuken FADC ultra is god like. it comes out in 3 frames, is easy, and meter means nothing to ibuki. Having meter with her is not necessary at all. What am i going to do with meter as ibuki that is effective? ex raida? Ex NB? EX rekka kicks? Her super?

Ibuki doesnt need meter…she needs a poke that doesnt suck.

When AE comes out and i can land an ultra from TC9 effectively i’ll love it. 5 frame startup on her lk is bad.

Too many characters beat her with 3 frame cr jabs, cancelable moves to super that have a 3 frame start up, more range, etc.

her tools are:

4 frame cr jab
5 frame crlk
5 frame st lk
6 frame standing mk
8 frame cr mp
3 frame st jab which gets beat out by good crouching pokes

its horrible. She can’t play defensively. she needs to constantly take chances even when she SHOULD be playing defensively when both characters are standing at a neutral position.

213

Of course srk is gdlk.It’s the best move in the game.But i was talking about the damage output and i meant that she doesn’t need meter to combo into ultra like ryu or cammy in most cases(like fadc or ex cannon strike,ex tatsu in the corner, etc).When it comes to that those ultras that you mentioned are inferior to ibuki’s.Also ibuki’s cl stlp has 3 frame startup so you can tc4>sjc u2 easily,cr lp has also 3 frame startup.Yes st mk is slow right now,so is lk,etc.Her normals aren’t good,that’s common knowledge.But with the AE buffs hopefully her poking game will become better.

214

I agree. With the AE buffs she will definitely be better.

SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV FRAME DATA - PRIMA Official Game Strategy

Her CR LP is 4 frames. It sucks.

215

Except you guys can just take the 10 seconds it takes to test this in training mode and find out that’s not the case with her ultra. Her Ultra 2 at low health still does good damage after her target combo.

216

And you can take all of a minute to read my post and realize what you said has nothing to do with what I said. What I am talking about is the fewer hits an ultra does the less health reduction effects it. Which for most characters THIS IS TRUE. If you want an example compared Akuma’s U1 versus Gief’s U1. Gief’s U1 has less reduction due to health because his ultra does all of its damage in 3 hits compared to Akuma’s which does it in 27 hits. Hell even compared it to Akuma’s U2 for that matter.

The key with Ibuki is that both her moves do multiple hits and as it turns out however that Ibuki’s U1 seems to be effected by this more.

217

Ok I finally found some ways to test this, and went ahead with it.

Ken’s hk.tatsu on hit = -1. Tested punishable.
Cammy’s razor’s edge on block = -1. Tested punishable.

Finally, Dudley’s mp.MGB on block = -1. Tested punishable, blocking high or low.

Unless these characters’ frame data is incorrect, then these results lead me to conclude that Adon’s frame data is wrong or there is some sort of bug with him.

218

Ken’s HK punishable on hit? Whoa.

I have to test this for myself, this is pretty mind blowing. It’s -1 on hit, -4 on block.

EDIT: Though, I’m really starting to think lk, mk SJC U2 works as a frame trap in most of my U1 set-ups. Not all of them, but enough for it be more worth it vs. Ryu or something.

cr.lp, cr.lp, st.lk, st.mk SJC U2 does just 328 dmg, but it’s a nice hit-confirm (especially since I haven’t got st.mk SJC U2 on it’s own yet, I need to lk).

cr.hp SJC U2 doing 476 dmg is beastly as a punish.

219

the frame data is probably wrong on those moves. test all of those against chuns super to see if she can punish any of them (dont use mk version… it sometimes can punish things that are -1)… if she can then the frames are wrong, if she cant then you START to have a case… but reversal ultra is still jumpoutable so its STILL 2 frames. you have to find a way to explain that, while also explaining why it sometimes works. imho she sometimes gets a 1 frame u1 in certain situations and not in others… which basically means that it is a bug, and inconsistent… so it CANT be labeled as a 1 frame reversal when it clearly isnt… just have to find all the situations that it IS a one framer.

-dime

220

who ever is managing this thread could u add the safe jumps and the pseudo unblockable found by coos recently that were in vortex, mixups, and i think there was 1 some where else in another it was about safe jumping sagat or something do u mind adding those to the 1st page when u get the chance so it’s easier to find thanks and i think mingo found one too can’t remember wat it was tho