Yeah it’s a hitbox thing similar to st.hp st.lk cr.mk scissors
I see that the side switch depends on whether or not the opponent techs, but what happens when the opponent slightly delays their quick stand? Quick stand can be delayed up to 5 frames.
I’ve noticed Neurosis and Happy Medicine doing f.throw -> whiff cr.lp -> headstomp. I haven’t gone to the lab in awhile, so I have yet to figure out what they’re trying to accomplish there, but if anybody knows what the purpose is offhand, feel free to post.
Against which characters please ghost?
its just for timing the headstomp. Thats all.
Probably been covered, but has any extensive testing been done with neutral jump strong?
It never hits(except tall characters) so it could be used to trick an opponent to expect some block stun and then throw.
I’ll see if it works at the next local I go to.
In my experience its not even good for that. The most use I have gotten out of it is annoying Viper on occasion.
Hey guys,
would it be possible to update the thread with new technology and maybe some more mix-ups, safe jumps, unblockables, corner set-ups, fake cross-ups, ect., char specific combos or set-ups. Especially corner set-ups ! I currently stuck a bit because I don’t have the time to be in the lab and I really don’t see much stuff from Bison videos. Don’t misunderstand me, this thread is absolutely amazing and most of my labwork is based on information from this thread. But I am still looking for some data, like EX PC knock down time (early quick stand). I am also looking for the frame data from fast recovery corner PC set-ups. This things are often more like a feeling than hard facts I can rely on.
Maybe I can collect here some of my standard tools I would say I use 90% of the time, some are more useful some less.I will not go into detail about all the tools, pretty sure the Bisons here know what I am talking about!
F.Throw:
s.lk safe jump
walk safe jump
walk anti srk j.hp
walk unblockable char spec. safe jumps
DR mix up (but not really often)
B.Throw
c.mp safe jump
walk back j.hk safe jump
walk unblockable char spec. safe jumps
DR mix up (but not really often)
c.lk HS deep hit
Light SK quick stand
Dash Dash meaty or throw set up
LP/MP/HP PC (not very often … eat too much reversals)
Jump against >8 frame reversals
Dash wait l.sk or c.mp
Instant meaty HS (risky stuff)
Mk/Hk SK quick stand
… meaty pokes or sk … is there something else
EX HS knock down
Immediately another HS
EX PC or HP PC (risky stuff)
Light PC quick stand
HP PC (well known and becoming more and more useless but still
funny)
EX PC quick stand
Dash l.sk
Dash throw
Whiff cr.mp > l.sk (risky)
Sweep Knock down
Walk back meaty cr.mp/mk xx sk/pc
Wait or walk back mp/hp PC
Corner Set ups / pressure
l.sk knock down > cs.hp > cr.lk xx sk
l.sk knock down > cs.hp > throw
l.sk knock down > HS & DR mix-up
l.sk walk back meaty cr.mk xx sk or wait
l.sk walk back s.hk or s.mk
f.throw > cr.mk/mp > j.hp fake cross up mix-ups
f.throw > sweep > throw or meaty cr.lk / cr.mk
b.throw > dash > nj.hk safe jump
b.throw > cr.mp > EX PC fast recovery in b.throw
Simple waiting and sk pressure mixed with s.mk and s.hk or j.mp on reaction
That is pretty much all I really like and know in Bisons Mix-ups/Set-ups or shenanigans.
Do I miss something important or is there more technology and tools I can use or
should use that is worth the risk/reward ratio. In my mind comes things like:
- Defensive Option Selects (e.g. crouch tech + back teleport ?)
- Mix-Up with forward teleport !? Dont think there is something useful but who knows ?
- Trade Set-Ups (e.g. trade option select into ultra like ryus trade ultra option select)
In the last time I don’t use the normal safe jumps after a throw, I only go for the walk
forward jump ins. Harder to time but so much worth it!
I would really appreciate any tips and tricks or input from the top Bison players here.
THX a looooooooooooot … 8)
Updated the OP with Bison’s Kara dash. It’s probably something you were unconsciously aware of anyway.
^I probably won’t reorg the OP that way because each of the setups require explanation. It makes more sense to be organized that way for a summary or a guide.
about the kara dash (as stupid as it sounds) i forgot to share here, but it does have an application
after the dash input a kara throw with hk and you will get a kara throw from the dash…
if you guys already knew this ignore me
you dont need to do HK for that. Just dash throw is the kara
IIRC you get a little more range
but nevermind
@Kara Dash
I always got the feeling that forward dash s.hk has some strange range … good to know !!!
@M16Ghost
Would it be possible to add corner set-ups in your list ? This would be great !
I saw gagapa doing forward throw > whiff cs.mk > jump mk --> fake cross up … looks promising and I will test it or ask him this weekend (he will be @ a tournament in germany).
Also happymedicine has some good corner set-ups and I learned some nice tricks from his set-ups, but having a list of all the solid corner set-ups would be just AWESOME !!!
Maybe there is some tech I am absolutely not aware of !?
THX dude
I’ve seen Gagapa do forward throw, whiff close s.mk> jump in HP, was this one already covered which characters does it work on?
So I was messing about with how Bison can take advantage of the fact his cr.short blockstring is not true. It doesn’t really work for those with a DP and there are various escapes. However I think using OS U2 in this fashion could be pretty useful and tested more (Particularly against Sim). It’s not all entirely useful. It works against Seths back teleport, Vipers EX seismo, Vegas Kick backflip etc. I think the concept of using more OS’s in blockstrings is good though.
[media=youtube]Sx3nwaML1I8[/media]
[media=youtube]rlN6cJiFvWI[/media]
so…now you dont have a OS against their backdash which is way more important.
It would be an awesome read of you land it. But it wont be worth it trying every time. Better go for os backdash blockstring into scissor.
That’s right you won’t, which is why you do have to read your opponent and mix it up. This could work rather well against Sim if you do a few OS sweeps to condition him to block the initial string on wakeup.
As I’ve said though this is something that would be used sparingly. However I think it has a use in the Dhalsim matchup.
Trying to find new character specific tech, setups, etc. Bison’s getting a little stale. <br>
<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>I’ve heard several claims that if “X is added to Bison’s game, he’d become broken.” My response to this is, there’s a lot of crack being smoked here. Have ya played against Akuma? Seth? Cammy? Ibuki? These characters are absolutely lavished with incredible offensive tools – with a curiously absent consideration for balance (and again, I don’t care about the pro level - this game cannot and should not be based around .1% of its community). Just got destroyed by a Cammy and Ibuki online by attacks you essentially have no chance of thwarting unless you go to the training and specifically work out responses, and I’m thinking “what the hell are those SRK Bison guys talking about? Bison has NOTHING anywhere this confusing.” Anyone who’s claiming a few modest tweaks would utterly break Bison aren’t playing good enough competition, or they’re so used to Bison being ass that they forget the embarrassment of riches other characters have, or they have the time to go to the training room and work out all sorts of responses. Again, if people aren’t having to do this against Bison, I shouldn’t have to do it against anyone else. Ryu, Akuma, Fei, Seth, Viper, HAVE IT ALL – everything, and just below that tier are great characters like Ryu, Sakura, Rufus and Cody, who are slightly less awesome but still have a ton of practical offensive options and attributes. People need to consider all the things Bisons doesn’t have: NO overheard, NONE. No combo to ultra. Crap Damage. Crap stun. Zero crazy crossups or moves where it happens so fast you can barely react. And very straightfoward objectives that can be shutdown easily once familiar. And the regularity with which I get jumped in on, is just crazy. It should not be THAT easy and that braindead to jump in on ANY character in this game. Anyone who thinks I’m awful and need to learn the matchups, please make me eat crow and face some of the 4200+ PP on my friends list for some endless who will tear Bison’s ass apart.</span></font>
Are you looking to debate? Or are you just venting? Either way, wrong thread for this discussion.<br>