Bison Labwork: setups, option-selects and unblockables (updated 4/2013)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

I don’t know what happened to my previous option-select thread, but it seems to have disappeared after the forum transition. Anyway, I’ll be using this thread to post some of the option-select information back up, as well as some additional technology that I found in the lab, or is scattered all over the forums.

Updates:
2/20/2012: Added another safejump setup (Backthrow into corner, dash forward, nj)
2/24/2012: Added a crossup headstomp video vs. Blanka
4/22/2012: Minor stuff. Safe-jump video against Chun.
4/26/2012: Updated information on techable knockdowns
4/28/2012: Added another crossup headstomp against Honda, Cody, etc.
4/30/2012: A video of safe-jump OS slide, and added a safe jump: backthrow->dash->j.mk
5/2/2012: Posted videos of unblockables vs Balrog, Yang, Seth, Cammy/Guile/Guy, and shotos
6/11/2012: Added an unblockable vs Ibuki, Makoto, Yun, and another against Chun, Rufus
1/17/2013: Added Bison’s “kara” dash
4/18/2013: Added info about Bison’s kara focus/dash

First, some Lab work:
Untechable knockdowns

Spoiler

Numbers are for the majority of the cast, and refer to the first frame the opponent is hittable. +1f for Sagat/Cammy, +2f for Blanka. Also, Gen gets up normally but has 1f of invulnerability if he doesn’t input anything.

Forward throw - opponent recovers on frame 55 after Bison is free to move
Backward throw - opponent recovers 61f after Bison
Slide - Varies. Opponent is down for 71f after getting hit. So opponent recovers between 44f - 55f after Bison recovers
EX Headstomp - opponent recovers 51f after Bison (need to verify)
Super - opponent recovers 28f after Bison
Ultra 1 - opponent recovers 23f after Bison
Ultra 2 - opponent recovers 23f after Bison

Techable knockdowns

Spoiler

Tech windows can be delayed up to 5(?) frames. Opponent can also choose not to tech. Techable knockdowns also vary slightly by character. grumble
For Rufus, adjust by -1f.
For Sakura, Guile and Cody, add +1f.
For Sagat add +2f.
For Balrog add +3f.
I still have to test other characters.

Tested against Ryu:
Light Scissors (2-hit) - Earliest opponent recovers is on frame 38 after Bison recovers. Recovers 87f if opponent does not tech
Medium Scissors (2-hit) - 33f / 82f
Hard Scissors (2-hit) - 30f / 79f
Light Psycho Crusher - 18f / 77f
Medium Psycho Crusher - 10f / 69f
Hard Psycho Crusher - 4f / 63f
Devil’s reverse - Still need to test. Also varies.

Total Move durations

Spoiler

st. lk - 11f
cr. lp/lk - 12f
far lp - 13f
cr. mp - 17f
Forward dash - 17f
close mk - 18f
cr. mk - 19f
FA, Forward dash - 20f fastest
close mp - 21f
far mp - 21f
st. mk - 22f
st. hk - 24f
Whiff throw - 24f
Back dash - 25f
close hp - 26f
Bison’s complete forward walk animation - 27f total frames
FA, back dash - 28f fastest
far hp - 31f
light scissors - 33f
cr. hp - 36f
medium scissors - 41f
slide - 42f
teleport - 42f
jumping - 44f (including pre-jump frames)
ex scissors - 44f
hard scissors - 47f
jump attack - 48f before you can attack on the ground
empty DR - 48f
light pc - 54f
EX PC - 54f
medium pc - 62f
fierce pc - 68f

Safest Attack Frames

Spoiler

These are the frames which are safe to hit with, on block. Spacing isn’t a consideration in these numbers. (e.g. a 1-hit MK Scissors)
Any jump attack - Hits meatiest on frame 44
LP Psycho Crusher - Safe if blocked on frame 32-36 (-2 to +2 advantage)
MP Psycho Crusher - Only safe if blocked on 40 (-2 advantage)
HP Psycho Crusher - Only safe if blocked on 46 (-2 advantage)
EX Psycho Crusher - Safe on frames 28-36 (-2 to +6 advantage)
Slide - Safe if blocked on frames 23-26 (-2 to +1 advantage)

What does this all mean?
Let’s take Bison’s forward throw. In this case, the opponent gets up and is free to be hit on the 55th frame after Bison can move. Well Bison’s jump (44f) + whiffed stand short (11f) also happens to be 55 frames. So a perfectly timed forward throw -> whiffed short -> j.hp will be the exact timing to safe-jump 4-frame reversals, i.e. Guile/Dee Jay/Yun. Try it. Maybe I’ll get a vid up.

Likewise, for a back throw, you have 61f. Well, jump attack (44f) + crouching strong (17f) is also 61f. So backthrow -> whiff cr.mp -> j.hk will be perfectly meaty to safe jump 4-frame reversals.

4-frame reversal safe-jump timing ~ Works on Guile, Dee Jay, Yun, Chun, Fei, Dudley, Guy, Seth, Yang, Adon, Ibuki, Gen, Dan

Forward throw -> st. lk -> jump attack (difficult because you can’t plink the st.lk)
Backward throw -> cr.mp -> jump attack
Backward throw into corner -> dash forward -> neutral jump attack (requires corner)*
Point blank slide -> neutral jump attack (doesn’t work on counter-hit)

*Crossup jf.mk works midscreen vs. Adon, Bison, Gen, Gouken, El-Fuerte, Hakan, Makoto, Rufus. Hakan and Makoto can EX command grab though.

5-frame reversal safe-jump timing ~ Works on Sagat, Cammy, Chun, Fei, Seth, Yang, Adon, Ibuki, Gen, Dan

Forward throw -> cr.lk -> jump attack
Slide (doesn’t matter when it hits) -> FADC backwards-> jump attack (doesn’t work on counter-hit)

**6-frame reversal safe-jump timing ~ **Works on Blanka, Sagat, Cammy, Chun
Forward throw -> far lp (can’t plink) -> jump attack
Backward throw -> cr. mk -> jump attack

The above setups will work on characters with slower reversals. (Bison, Rog, etc). Generally, because you’re not always going to be frame perfect, you will want to use the fastest setup available against that character to leave yourself room for error. So for example, against Sagat, you can do Forward throw -> far lp -> jump attack, but since that setup is slower and unplinkable, you’re better off whiffing a cr.lk instead.

Now What?
Inevitably, your opponent will wise up to your telegraphed safe-jumps, and either start blocking or backdashing. Well guess what, you can OS the backdash too. Bison’s OS’s aren’t particularly great, but you can catch backdashes with OS slide or roundhouse.

Option-selects
When you are option selecting against a backdash, the general idea is that you are hiding your OS inputs during the slowdown that occurs during hit or block stun. If your initial move whiffs, then the game continues at normal speed, and your OS input will come out. For example.

j.HP ~s.HK, (…cr.lp, st.lk, cr.mk xx scissors)

So the idea here is that during your jump fierce, you press the st.HK right around when you would normally land. If you st.hk comes out even when you connect with the jump fierce, you pressed it too late. If it doesn’t come out at all, or your safe-jump gets hit, you pressed it too early. The goal is to get the st.HK to come out only if the opponent backdashes. You’re not limited to using only jump fierce and st.hk, either. You can use slide against characters with slower backdashes, and it will give you an untechable knockdown, as oppose to resetting the opponent in the air.

Here’s a video of safe-jump OS stand roundhouse:

Spoiler

[media=youtube]b6MpcK7ZzJE[/media]
[media=youtube]jEVdIQE8FJE[/media]

Chain Option-select
Right next to a grounded opponent, you press:
cr.lp, st.hk~st.lp, (…cr.mk xx scissors)

If the opponent back dashes your crouching jab, your st.hk should swat them. Otherwise you will continue with your jab hit confirm combo or blockstring.

Recovery Option-select
cr.mp ~st.hk (…st.hk)

Press st.hk before cr.mp recovers. Like before, if cr.mp connects, then the first st.hk won’t come out.

st.lk xx lk scissors OS U1
With charge, against a grounded opponent:
:b: + :lk:, :f: + (release :lk:), :b:, :f: + :3k:

This OS will go into st.lk xx lk scissors on block or hit, and on whiff, U1 will come out. Great against characters with slow reversals.

So against Guile: Backwards throw-> cr.mp -> jump attack OS slide beats every single one of his options except for block and FA backdash.

Here’s a video of safe-jump OS sweep:

Spoiler

[media=youtube]h22L8vFW-BQ[/media]

Against Chun, because her backdash is so fast, you will have to OS roundhouse instead, but you will block EX-SBK and tag her backdash, which are her only two wakeup options. If your roundhouse whiffs, you just have to press it earlier.

Against Fei, OS roundhouse will block dp and tag backdash, but lose to short chicken wing. You can OS stand short to beat chickenwing, but then he can backdash. The risk is yours to take.

And so on and so forth.

I have more things to post, but I’ll do it later. If anybody also has any new technology, feel free to post and I’ll update.

2

Unblockables

Bison has an unblockable setup against a few characters.

Unblockable vs Cammy, Guile, (Guy?)

Forward throw -> walk a step and a half -> j.hp

After a forward throw, walk about a step and a half (before Bison completes his walk cycle, I’ll be more precise about this later), and jump fierce. If they block as a non-crossup, Bison will land a very deep cross up fierce. If they block it as a crossup, Bison will hit them and land in front of them. This is very similar to the shoto dp setup.

This only works midscreen, and not in the corner.

Spoiler

[media=youtube]X4TKKWBdhU8[/media]

Like all unblockables, there are ways out of it, so it’s not totally free.

Credit goes to mikehascookies

Unblockable vs Balrog, Cammy, Guile, Guy, Gouken, Rufus, Viper
Backthrow -> step and a half (see a pattern here?) -> j.mk.

J.hp with the same timing also works on Guile, Guy and Viper.

Like the other setup, against all characters except Cammy, Bison will land on the same side the opponent holds his joystick (so if they hold right, Bison will land on the opponent’s right side). Against Cammy, Bison will land on the crossup side regardless of how they block. This works only midscreen.

The j.mk works on more characters and most characters cannot crouch or dash under.

Always unsafe vs Cammy, and Guy with meter.
Gouken can escape with parry, but everything else whiffs.
Balrog, Guile Rufus and Viper’s reversals all whiff.

Vid is up:

Spoiler

[media=youtube]ExF8ZBMU1HU[/media]

Unblockable vs Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Evil Ryu, Oni, Rufus, Viper, Chun-Li, Guy, Makoto, Ibuki
Backthrow -> dash, wait 5~6 frames, jump mk/hk
Here’s a vid:

Spoiler

[media=youtube]G8pnxJC_RaM[/media]
[media=youtube]CUag0lmxdCA[/media]

Unsafe vs Chun and Guy when they have meter, always unsafe vs Makoto. Ibuki can escape with command dash.

Ken needs a very strict autocorrect dp to escape the j.mk setup, Ryu can trade dp, and Akuma has to teleport. Using j.hk makes you safe from most reversals, but allows some characters to dash under.

Like most of Bison’s setups, the timing is hard to get correctly.
Credit to Gangyrong.

Unblockable vs Ibuki, Makoto, Yun
Backthrow -> dash, wait ~10 frames, jump mk

Safe:
Ibuki (can escape though)

Unsafe:
Makoto
Yun

Credit goes to ShadowOS

Unblockable vs Balrog
Forward throw -> walk -> j.hp

Spoiler

[media=youtube]VkwzvB99Baw[/media]

It’s specific to Balrog, and it’s crouchable, but it’s pretty safe.
Credit to Gangyrong.

Unblockable vs Yang
Forward throw -> walk -> j.hp

Spoiler

[media=youtube]2MHlD7YN4wo[/media]

The timing here is different than the setup used on Balrog. You’re aiming to hit Yang’s back. Safe from dp, but Yang can just forward dash under.
Credit to Gangyrong.

Unblockable vs Seth
Back throw -> walk -> j.hk

Spoiler

[media=youtube]Jy5k37iST6U[/media]

Seth cannot dash away, and it’s safe from reversal dp, but it’s crouchable. One thing I noticed is that if Seth tries to jump forward out, it resets him out of the air, but if he tries to jump backwards out, he gets caught on the ground. So it’s probably possible to do some weird input to get autocorrect dp, but I wasn’t able to get it.
Credit to Gangyrong.

Unblockable vs Chun, Rufus
Forward throw -> walk - > j.hk

Unsafe with meter:
Chun
Rufus

It’s not crouchable, but Chun can dash under, Rufus cannot.

When performed on a training dummy, Bison crosses up Chun, but hits Rufus (and lands) in front.

Crossup Headstomps
The timing for these are unpractical, but they are possible on certain characters. You basically have to time a perfectly meaty headstomp so that Bison hits as low to the ground as possible. You only have one frame to do this.

Works on Ibuki, Dan, Chun, Adon: (also works on Hakan and Guy, but the spacing is specific)
Forward throw into corner -> headstomp (only works on Adon midscreen, not in corner)

The headstomp will whiff if Ibuki blocks it as a crossup, but will hit her if she tries to block it normally.

Works on Blanka:
Backthrow -> whiff cr.lk -> headstomp

Spoiler

[media=youtube]ylV4lbJ_XeA[/media]

The correct timing is actually slightly longer than the whiffed short, but that is the closest way to approximate it (since you can’t whiff standing moves and charge headstomp)

Another crossup headstomp setup:
Backthrow -> whiff cr.lk -> headstomp

Spoiler

[media=youtube]-NnJX2pmk44[/media]

The timing is a frame ahead of the one on Blanka, so it is still impractical, but this works midscreen against a whole bunch of characters:
Chun, Cody, Dan, Gen, Guy, Hakan, Honda, Ibuki, Viper

Honda is really the only character who’s reversals all whiff.
Hakan can’t do anything without ultra 2.
Ibuki, Chun, Cody and Guy can’t do anything without meter.
The rest can reversal as normal.

For all these setups, you can wait until the smoke clears around your opponent’s body before you headstomp, which will also help with the timing.

Still digging around for more practical setups.

Crossup Psycho Crusher
Bison’s setups aren’t really mixups, and cross up psycho crusher isn’t any different. For all of these setups, you can play with the timing to hit in the front, but if your opponent blocks correctly, you will get punished. A blocked crossup crusher is much more safe, but much more predictable as well.

Combo into lk scissors -> mp/hp pc (mid screen)

Bison’s most common knockdown is off a light scissors, which gives him the opportunity to perform a crossup medium or hard psycho crusher on just about every character if they tech the knockdown.
Unfortunately, this setup can be punished with autocorrected reversals if your opponent knows how. There is a window where you can make most reversals whiff, but it is not at all reliable if your opponent varies his tech.

Bnb combo into lp crusher -> hp crusher (mid screen)

Probably the only setup where your opponent has to make a decision fairly quickly, and you’ll find more success just from the confusion. The advantage of this setup is that you can choose not to perform the hp crusher and you will be in front of your opponent with charge. Remember that psycho crusher doesn’t combo from jabs or shorts though.

Backthrow -> slide -> hp crusher (mid screen)

This setup is character specific, but it makes all shoto reversals whiff. The timing is somewhat tight, so if you’re late with the slide, you can just sit with your charge.

Forward/back throw -> cr.mp -> ex crusher (mid screen)

This setup works on everybody, but it only does half damage (75) for one bar. The timing is not strict, and the advantage is that it looks like the backthrow safejump setup if you condition your opponent to look for that.

FA crumple -> forward dash -> walk back slightly -> cr.mp xx lp crusher

A reset setup you can use if you dizzy an opponent with a long combo. The safe window is not that difficult to hit once you get used to the spacing. Done correctly, shoto reversals will whiff the wrong direction, and Bison will be safe on block if the opponent blocks correctly.

jump mp x1 -> cr.mp (reset) -> mp/hp psycho crusher
jump mp x1 -> close hp (reset) -> lp psycho crusher

Bison’s only reset setup outside of a focus crumple, and difficult to find the safe timing to make reversals whiff. Often your opponent can just auto correct reversal (for those characters who can)

Slide knockdown-> (pause/walk back) psycho crusher
EX Headstomp knockdown (grounded opponent) -> whiff skull diver -> psycho crusher
Full screen psycho crusher knockdown -> (opponent techs) -> psycho crusher

Hard to land the safe window with these setups, because the timing is so inconsistent.

Backthrow -> empty’s devil reverse -> EX-PC

More of a gimmick than a crossup setup. The empty Devil’s Reverse will cause Bison to corpse hop over the opponent, and you can autocorrect a charge move as you land, crossing up the opponent.

Kara Cancels
Bison gets extra range on his throws/normals when they’re done at the end of his forward dash. It’s not really a kara per se, but there doesn’t seem to be any other appropriate name.

The timing isn’t difficult- just perform the move as Bison plants his feet from his dash. The range is pretty noticeable, so if you ever felt like Bison had tremendous throw range, this is probably the reason why.

Credit to Javits

Cr.hk kara cancel
Bison can kara cancel off his slide. Unfortunately, the kara is tiny and it moves Bison backwards, so it’s not that useful. It is much easier to kara focus, which might be useful to bait grab attempts after a blockstring.

To kara focus, hold (any down direction will do) :db: and then press :hk: ~ :mp:+:mk:

To kara throw, you have to hold :db: and then plink :hk: ~ :b:+:lp:+:lk:

Spoiler

[media=youtube]JmcGtbnAqSA[/media]

3

Character Specific Tricks

Abel

Spoiler

Throw Abel into a corner -> whiff cr.mk -> jump hp. If Abel tries to EX-roll on wakeup, he will roll right back into the corner

Akuma

Spoiler

Combo into medium scissor kicks -> headstomp. The headstomp will beat all of Akuma’s reversals except for mp dp. If he teleports, you can auto-correct EX-PC on reaction to punish.

C. Viper

Spoiler

Forward throw -> whiff jump attack -> meaty close jab

Recovers in time to block reversal uppercut. You can OS some other options to handle EX-Seismo and backdash. You will still be safe from TK.

E. Honda

Spoiler

EX-Headstomp-> hold forward -> whiff skulldiver - > headstomp

After landing any EX-headstomp, cross over to the opposite side, and whiff skull diver around the edge of lk scissors range. Immediately do another headstomp, which will be free. All his reversals whiff, and as a bonus, it occasionally crosses up if you get the right frame.

Gen

Spoiler

Backthrow-> dash forward-> j.mk is an automatic 4-frame safe-jump midscreen. Gen actually has to leave the stick at neutral to make it whiff.

Gouken

Spoiler

Backthrow-> dash forward-> j.mk is an automatic 4-frame safe-jump midscreen, and is safe from his 3-frame super.

cr.mp xx EX-PC beats all of his counters, and is safe from his EX-tatsu.
Forward throw-> empty DR -> cr.mp xx EX-PC makes the cr.mp hit meaty.

Ken

Spoiler

This unblockable:
Back throw -> dash -> wait 5-6 frames -> j.mk is unavoidable for Ken. All reversals whiff or get stuffed, and he cannot dash or crouch under it.

M. Bison

Spoiler

lk scissors knockdown -> jump hk OS throw. The throw will catch wakeup EX-PC if the tech is done normally, but will lose to delayed quickstand -> reversal.

Yun

Spoiler

mk scissors knockdown -> empty DR avoids all of Yun’s uppercuts. Yun can delay quickstand though to make the uppercut hit, though.

4

Oh man, good stuff! I have been looking for a thread like this!

5

Once this gets completed this needs stickied!

Good work!

6

I was looking for this information, thanks for putting it up again.

7

Great thread m16. Looking forward to your updates.

8

I’m ashamed to tell y’all this,but i never figured out how to input OS’s on someone’s wakeup. What’s the main rule? First move must be a meaty?

9

Generally you hit the input during the blockstun. I’m debating whether to put that information in this thread, since it’s not really Bison specific and it should ultimately be covered in the wiki, but this post should get you started: The Akuma Option Select Mega Thread

10

http://tapatalk.com/mu/d0362484-7ad7-8822.jpg

Sent from my T-Mobile G2

11

Fantastic thread. Looking forward to the updates.

I use a couple of those setups and will start using the rest once they’re up. Sticky once complete for sure.

12

No one has mentioned this in the thread so I’m gonna ask for it!

What exactly is the notation for Bison’s option-select backdash from c.short?

is it : c.short, c.rh~c.short.

if timed correctly when the first c.short gets blocked/hit another c.short comes out (or nothing if u missed timed it) and the opponent backdashed u should be getting the slide right?

13

good job m16, still active in the community i see haha

14

I suggest Psycho Crusher Cross utilities: how to properly use the 2 best Psycho Crushers:

.Deep Frontal: Bison hits in the face, 2 hits on block (safe on block against majority of stuff), reversal don’t hit him.
.Foot Cross: Hitting with the very point of his foot, the enemy might have to change his input. Reversals that would be able to hit him out of Psycho will whiff instead.

These are the most amazing crossup Psychos. They even beat Lariat PPP.

15

bump on the questions.

16

It’s actually from a cr.jab, not a short. But that is the correct notation.

It doesn’t work on everybody though, mostly on characters with teleports or slow backdashes (Sagat, Ibuki, Sim, Evil Ryu, etc.)

17

I think I might have discovered a new Frame trap but I’m not good with frame data so I need some analysis from experts

On block ( This worked against E.Ryu and Gouken )

Medium range cr.Fierce blocked, then another cr.Fierce, this seems to beat pokes like cr forward and cr strong, along with some special moves. Naturally it gets beaten by shoryukens because of the slow speed.

18

so there is no true 3F safe jump, only the cheat jump (the one you see every now and then the whiff auto correct SRK because your j.FP is hard to tell the direction)

what stuff I can use to against Viper/Honda/Gief??
I don’t jump at viper, I do throw though…
Honda is gonna be BS hard next patch, those anti air headbutt is back.
Gief jump in is no use, he gonna trade you day after night…

19

Cool thread. Good to see people posting stuff like this. BTW, the unblockable j.fp also works on Guy. It’s not super useful though, since he can just reversal EX bushin kick, but it’s something.

This isn’t entirely true. You can safe jump characters in a way so that if they do a reversal the early active frames will whiff, allowing you to land and block. For Bison, the setup is:

backthrow, take a slight step backwards, jump rh.

If you time it right, you’ll be able to block a reversal dp. This doesn’t work on Ken, since his fierce dp has so much horizontal range. It works on Akuma’s DP, but if he does reversal U1 it will snag your landing recovery frames. Ryu can’t do anything about it.

20

Hmm this seemed to work well on a gief last night minded I had to watch out for auto correct spd and ex suplex.

Back throw, dash forward, late as hell j.mk. Timed right it tended to stuff wakeup lariat attempts.

I was still able to backdash as soon as I landed if I thought he was gonna do anything, the result is spd whiffs and suplex becomes ex running bear grab easily punished by neutral jump attack into combo. Ex green hand will catch you if he reads that your gonna backdash though.