Thought it must be something like that. Cheers.
By the way this thread should definitely be stickied.
Difference?
option from SAFEST to RISKY option.
after lk scissor:
#Double dash (-4 or -2? need confirm for that) pretty safe, work on sagat, don’t know about wake up reversal dp but I have feeling lose to cammy and fei long.
TOP safety pick, standard for play book, mix up timing for dash and walk can further confuse people, and they either jump/neutral jump a lot, or back to corner.
#Slide (-5 or -7) mix up option, can be beat by wake up ex tigerknee? some time ex knee on wake up cross me up, da faq?
50/50 safety pick, sometime slide hit as meaty and you can do very late cancel, this also further the mix up, feel not as good as dashx2 but is mix up.
cr.lp/lk can be meaty but can’t reversal (need comfirm that, I use it sometime and block reversal, strange)
cr.mk punish walk back attempt
slide again if first one whiff, use slide as Ryu cr.RH, is better option because it also can escape if you have 2 bar.
st.mp trap, st.fierce might also work as meaty but can’t be punish (need confirm, I am not really technical person…the test is pretty hard)
Dash, neutral jump (bait out option, sometime, it works…I see ex DP comes out before and it will whiff in your face)
sometime pointless, and e.ryu/ken/sagat/sakura who have huge DP range can really punish you, this can also serve as bait, if you don’t dash just walk,
sagat will try to punish your neutral jump.
good thing about this is spacing, if they don’t do wake up dp but fireball again, you can see it when you land and jump in on sagat.
but is 50/50 (he kara dp he win, but if he fireball he might lose)
in this range I prefer headstomp, unless they do FB fadc they can’t get away from HS, and if you time it right is like psyche stomp.
dash and walk, (mix up or you can walk back/dash back to spacing for jump in, watch out for reversal, or pause reversal)
I think if you use too much you get reversal or throw, walk close and stick out limps is good idea when they think you want scissor.
and yes you can still go whiff your limp and whiff punish/punish jump in, but for their option if they teleport back (sim)
or dash back (gen), is kinda losing momentum here. “Why I don’t do dash x2…omg I am so stupid”
MK scissor
Slide
dash x2 walk
walk, empty jump cr.lk
walk, focus.
This is very interesting topic due to some character just can’t deal with cross up psycho (especially MK psycho, and LP psycho)
they will start RATHER NOT TECH UP!
if anyone knows the set up for NOT tech up walk distance for 4F 5F safe jump let us know.
I am still bad at tourney…this might helps =_=
M16ghost you did most amazing job by listing out all these data, I was able to see so much crap out from other players mind because all your frame data help me.
If 7f gap is too wide, they eat roundhouse, if 3F they block, they get throw,
and mostly if they reversal on my st.fierce, they will either eat LV 3 crumble, or FADC throw, or get bait out into throw into safe jump over and over.
M16 you are like AK47 to me.
Someone PLZ stick this thing on top.
Is there any guide line for 3 frame reversal safe jump?
I only saw some top bison do back throw --> walk 2 step jump HP. I wonder is any other safe jump ?
I don’t think there is 3F reversal safe jump out there, but there is cheating jump + unblockable off back throw, it just depend on your move of choice.
IF you want corner pressure or some character you feel they way better at corner (I don’t corner zangief for some reason)
you can off back throw, dash, jump HK, this works well on RYU and ADON and Rufus, I think if you do dash-jump MK on RUFUS off good timing is unblockable.
ADON is kind of cheating jump, but if he ex normally he win.
Safe jump contain risk if you not on point.
the one you see might be cross up cheating jump for character have not really good DP eversal or no EX, typical is Guile, Gen, Chun, Sakura, Blanka, Honda.
because angle and timing, some character will hard to jump than others (DJ, Adon) or have fast move or huge hit box move (Viper, Zangief)
the you change the way.
mostly depend on MU experience, test out youself.
Really? Daigo vs Dogura from 1.33…see the round 3…after backthrow walk 2 step and jump HP, why daigo keep focus backdash?
[media=youtube]U2VTxI3uB1s[/media]
Isn’t a cheat jump? Sorry nooby question, I dunno why daigo don’t just dp.
But maybe you’re right, sometimes I do eat DP, but some it works, I dunno why
I rarely do unblockable on adon, mostly adon will win I dunno why,
Its not a true safe jump alright, but it does cause reversal DP’s to whiff unless the player knows how to get the DP to come out the in the other direction.High level players seems to be able to do it at ease so I’m not sure why Daigo didn’t do it in that match up, maybe he just wasn’t confident he could do it consistently during those games. The reason for the focus backdash, is when the focus attacks absorbs the hit from the jump in it stops option selects from triggering. If Daigo simply back dashed he would probably got hit by OS roundhouse.
on DP character wake up, jump in FIERCE from Bison is very hard to auto correct.
Focus back dash is good against Bison, there is other form of “POORMAN OPTION SELECT” on wake up. (defensive option select?)
you use back dash and 4 input, LP LK MP MK, and back dash.
it work as self option select, if they empty jump throw, you will tec
if they cross up jump, you will focus and able to dash out
if they empty jump, you will focus the low, and get hit out air borne if that is the case.
if they empty jump with anything but lp/lk , if you time it right you might able to throw them because you do input the throw, and other move is slower on start up.
if they empty jump DP, you focus dash out, but might get reversal glass shatter because this input timing are hard, and I think you can focus kara DP.
My trainer using that, only option select I can get off from him is RH, sometime I dash again after jump in to catch his jump back and frame trap him.
its just a guess, but mind your own risk.
for Bison, is nothing he can really follow up on wake up focus, if you do it right, Bison can risk getting DPed if he decide to punish back dash with RH.
DP might beat it on recovery.
Dogura lock him up pretty well on corner there, is very hard for him to escape, but when he throw him 2nd time I think he might fked up MK safe jump
or he try to combo but Ryu was doing cr.mk/mp or cr.lk it trade and eat a dp.
against something you can’t really block, focus back dash on wake up is not bad idea, especially if they only one hit and I don’t think you can auto correct the EX PC on jump in safe jump set up because is too slow, if Bison have some fast and long distance move they might stop doing this once we can punish.
but sadly no, I don’t think so, is not that big of guess and if you chase Ryu too hard, you gonna eat that DP.
thing is, if they chose to reset, I think you better off don’t chase them…better not chase them too hard, chase make you weak.
uh i just noticed a setup i use vs yun isn’t technically listed here… but it’s very similar to this one:
except that you wait for maybe about 10-12 frames instead and use j.mk specifically.
new timing vs yun:
l.upkicks beats it
m.upkicks are stuffed and yun stays grounded for combo
h/ex.upkicks whiff
if yun tries to block obviously he can’t and you get your combo
new timing is still unblockable vs:
ibuki, makoto
new timing is no longer unblockable vs:
oni, chun, viper, e.ryu, guy, rufus, akuma, ryu, ken
so yeah i guess learn the new timing for yun specifically and stick to the old one too. more tools in the pocket i say
I can verify that the unblockable works on Yun, Makoto and Ibuki, but apparently the timing I used was still blockable by Ryu and Ken.
It seems only useful against Ibuki since it stuffs her reversal, but she can just dash under it
that’s because i made a mistake. sorry about that. it does explain the difference i saw between the shotos since an unblockable on one usually means an unblockable on the rest. ive updated my original post with the proper information
There’s a problem with the double dash against characters like Guy who just get up too fast ans can actually punish the double dash with c.lk 
I tried to check the dash walk forward but I’m only in range for doing 2 c.lk (since Guy hitbox is too damn small) and I can’t gain a charge this way.
Anyone got some other alternatives for Guy so I will still retain pressure and backdash OS after scissors vs him?
Just Light.Psycho crusher after Light.Double Knee press? It needs some timing ( Too early = whiffs on Guy’s wake up = bad times ) but should be safe I think, you can go for a OS string afterwards if you want.
You can only double dash -> meaty after a light scissors knockdown, otherwise you’re just doing it too slow.
Abusing light PC after light scissors will just get you reversal’ed. It can be used once in awhile, but it’s not something to rely on. Bison doesn’t really get much off of scissors knockdowns.
Anyway, I posted two new unblockables, one that ShadowOS just gave, and another one I found on Chun and Rufus. The one on Chun and Rufus is:
forward throw-> walk -> j.hk
It’s unsafe when they have meter, so it’s not really all that useful.
I know that. I can time vs most characters but Guy just gets up too fast. (try it for youself) ><
I’m trying it right now and Guy gets counterhit every time.
Seems wierd. I set the dummy to quick tech and jump. I knock it down with clk to lk scissors double dash clk and he’s already in the air bo matter what i try
Are you guys using empty DR>after a lk scissors much? Sometimes I try to go for a crouching jab, shorts>chain into LK scissors after cr. lk>lk scissors>empty DR jump in when punishing.
Other times I’ll try to set up a tech trap with close st.HP when empty jumping with DR but I get thrown out of the animation at times…
do it when people expecting to punish the stomp, but don’t do it too many, I do it off throw sometime to see it fit, but as Japanese style “Do it until it don’t work” concept, keep up the game to certain point that will eventually lead to the final showdown for your ultimate goal, footsie and anti air.
Just like ST Bison, even better.
Funny thing, many top Vega I see now play like ST, that is madness…no gimmick but straight solid, how can they ever do that.
I’m having trouble with forward throw>empty DR>lk scissors setup, does this work via auto correct? Would be pretty awesome if it works since your foe my try to tech
I thought empty DR is -4 no matter what, is depend on how they react, and it cross up depend on character, and also depend on timing.
so TIMING/CHARACTER then remember -4 on landing even you do it right.
I think this is very gimmcky way to get in and gets damage, Bison have much better way to gets damage and force people to respect your spacing.
like anti air, in most match up I using Ultra 1, if you do it right and you prepare for the jump in, beside Ryu and Akuma, you can anti air them with raw UC1.