Found some more damaging post-stun combos. Banana is beginning to be more worthwhile in combos.
Killing Head (KH) puts the opponent at a good distance to get this full combo. It’s also possible to set up the banana at the right distance from other setups in non-VT, f.ex.:
front throw: slight backwalk, banana, front dash
back throw: front dash, slight backwalk, banana, front dash
LP Bullhead: front dash, slight backwalk, banana, front dash
MP Bullhead: front dash, banana, front dash
post stun combo:
KH (stun), fdash, Banana, fdash+ slight walk, j.MP, fHK, cHP xx HK Hanging Chain – 500 (200+300)
KH (stun), fdash, Banana, fdash+ slight walk, j.MP, fHK, sHK, cMP xx MP BHd – 513 (200+313) – CA is 681
KH (stun), fdash, Banana, fdash+ slight walk, j.MP, fHK, sHK xx VT, cMP xx MP BHd – 506 (200+306) – CA is 704
KH (stun), fdash, Banana, fdash+ slight walk, j.MP, fHK, Bullhorn xx VT, LP BHd – 514 (200+314) – CA is 714
KH (stun), fdash, Banana, fdash+ slight walk, j.MP, fHK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT, LP BHd – 522 (200+322) – CA is 722
VT, MP Bullhead (stun), fdash, Banana, fdash, j.MP, fHK, sHK, cMP xx MP BHd – 532 (156+376) – CA is 730
VT, fthrow (stun), bwalk, Banana, fdash, j.MP, fHK, sHK, cMP xx MP BHd – 556 (180+376) – CA is 754
VT, KH (stun), fdash, bwalk, Banana, fdash, j.MP, fHK, sHK, cMP xx MP BHd – 612 (240+372) – CA is 810
I think Birdie got a secret nerf on the EX headbutt. I think the back tech knockdown advantage was increased from 30 to 31 (now 5 frame difference between regular and back tech instead of 4), and this removes Birdie’s ability to cover both tech options by whiffing cr lp into CC hk.
Can anyone else confirm this? If I’m right, this is pretty sad, considering Birdie wasn’t particularly strong to begin with.
No I’m pretty sure it hasn’t - check the SFV wiki (http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_V/Birdie) or Gilley’s frame data Google doc. It was one of the only (perhaps literally the only) move with this property (4 frame difference between back and regular recovery). This allowed for really juicy meaties that covered both tech options. Pretty huge nerf IMO.
The frame data was just wrong and I even reported it to toolassisted.
I tested this a ton when I made a bunch of setups for all attacks that gave knockdown frames. It’s been since updated (around 21st of march).
Plus, srk frame data copies gilley’s frame data and gives him credit. So it’s one and the same.
Thanks for the explanation. I was never able to get those setups consistently but I thought my execution was just bad (which was confusing, given the input buffer in this game). Turns out it never worked all along. Thanks!
So idk if this has already been talked about but I recently found out about a setup for timing birdie’s meaty f+hk on wakeup. If you hit someone with sweep then whiff a slide and immediately go into birdie’s overhead it will hit meaty (and you can combo out of it). Timing it to be meaty otherwise can be very difficult so this could help.
xyzzy uses this setup at around 3:41. The only situation where this did not work is when you hit the sweep at absolute max range. The overhead will hit meaty but any following buttons will whiff.
Edit: I lied, this only works when you get a crush counter sweep.
CC sHK walk forward sHK, sMPxxMP Bullhead 335dmg 551stun
In V trigger CC sHK walk forward sHK, sMPxxBullhorn(xxSuper)410dmg 551stun (605dmg 481stun)
The CC sHK walk forward sHK combo route is significantly easier in V Trigger
Corner CC sHK walk forward sHK, sMPxxMP BullheadxxV trigger MP Bullhead(xxSuper)431dmg 681stun (629dmg 681stun)
I’m currently in the process of updating the giant combo list in the front page with new damage values, remove old ones that aren’t possible, and also add brand new ones.
It will probably be done by tomorrow or even late this evening.
All combos with MP can either be done with cMP or sMP, there’s only a 10 dmg difference.
All combos ending with VT xx M.Bullhead can be replaced with VT xx EX Bullhead if you want to spend meter.
All combos ending with sLP xx LP Bullhead can be replaced with sLP xx MP Bullhead in VT.
All combos ending with EX Bullhead (5 hits - 156 / 240) can always be replaced with EX Chain (204 / 220) against Birdie, Balrog, Zangief, Fang and Urien after close bullhorns / cHP!! or when late VT cancelling out of bullhorn
All combos ending with EX Chain can be replaced with EX Bullhead (for less damage, more stun and a different kd setup).
Hitconfirms
sLP, sLK, sLP – you need to be close, might also be character spec. when used after a cross-up.
xx LP Bullhead – 169 dmg / 383 stun – EX Bhd is 205 / 418 – CA cancel is 373
xx EX Bullhorn – 205 / 418
sLK
sLP_sLK xx LP Bullhead – 146 / 331 – EX BHd is 186 / 371 – CA is 384
cMP xx MP Bullhead – 181 / 358 – CA is 419
cMP xx Bullhorn – 189 / 358 – CA is 427
cMP xx EX Chain – 229 / 374
sHK
MP xx MP Bullhead – 251 / 418 – CA is 489
MP xx Bullhorn – 259 / 418 – CA is 497
MP xx EX Chain – 299 / 434
cLK (low) or cLP (+10 dmg) or sMP ( +30 dmg & stun)
sLK xx LP Bullhead – 137 / 331-- EX BHd is 177 / 371 – CA is 375
Counter Hit Punish combos
sHK cc
LK Chain - 228 / 360
MK Chain - 255 / 360
cHP xx HP Bullhead – 288 / 475 – EX Chain is 328 / 491 – CA is 526
walk + cHP xx Bullhorn – 288 / 475
walk + cHP xx HK Chain – 320 / 475
walk + cHP xx EX Chain – 328 / 491
dash + HP Killing head – 300 / 396 – EX KH is 318 / 423
dash + MP xx MP Bullhead – 271 / 448 – CA is 509
dash + MP xx Bullhorn – 279 / 448 – CA is 517
dash + MP xx EX Chain – 319 / 464**
dash + MP xx Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 395 / 608 – EX Bullhead is 407/628 – CA is 599
cHP xx MP Bullhead xx VT, MP Bullhead – 396 / 635 – CA is – 594 – Character specific!!
(Corner) sMP xx Bullhorn xx VT, cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 400 / 638 – EX Chain is 430 / 648 – CA is 604
(Corner) cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 404 / 635 – EX Chain is 440 / 645 – CA is 608
(Corner) cHP xx Bullhorn > wait untill last active frame > VT, HP Bullhead – 410 / 635 – CA is 614
(Corner) cHP xx EX Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 428 / 675 – EX Chain is 464 / 685
fHP cc
MP Bullhead – 195 / 360
EX Bullhead – 232 / 405
(Corner) cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 264 / 475 – CA is 502
(Corner) cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 380 / 635 – EX Chain is 416 / 645 – CA is 584
(Corner) cHP xx EX Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 404 / 675 – EX Chain is 440 / 685
sHK cc (in V-Trigger)
HP Killing Head – 361 / 396 – EX Killing Head is 383 / 423
cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 346 / 475 – CA is 631
walk + sHK, sMP xx MP Bullhead – 403 / 551 – EX Chain is 453 / 585 – CA is 648
walk + sHK, sMP xx Bullhorn – 410 / 551
VTrigger cancel combos
sHK xx VT, cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 278 / 410 – CA is 523
sHK xx VT, cHP xx HK Chain – 311 / 410
cHP xx VT, MP Bullhead – 240 dmg / 370 stun – EX Bullhead is 273 / 405 – CA is 485
cHP xx Bullhorn xx VT, LP Bullhead – 255 / 463 – EX Bullhead is 297 / 498 – CA is 500
MP xx Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 315 / 490 – EX Bullhead is 329 / 514 – CA is 519
cHP xx Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 325 / 520 – EX Chain is 369 / 532 – CA is 529 – character specific!
sLP, sLK, sLP xx EX Bullhead xx VT cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 259 / 468
sLP, sLK xx EX Bullhead xx VT cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 257 / 441
MP xx EX Bullhead xx VT cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 291/ 435
MP xx EX Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 343 / 535 – EX Chain 387 / 547
sHK, sMP xx Bullhorn xx VT MP Bullhead – 366 / 578 – EX Bullhead is 378 / 598 – CA is 570
sHK, MP xx EX Bullhead xx VT cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn – 353 / 528 – EX Chain is 383 / 538
sHK, MP xx EX Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 399 / 618 – EX Chain is 435 / 628
All corner Bullheads can combo into Vtrigger
Corner Bullheads xx VT: MP Bullhead / Bullhorn (+7 dmg) / EX Bullhead or EX Bullhorn (+33 dmg / +35 stun) / EX Chain (+50 dmg / +14 stun)
(Corner) MP xx EX Bullhead xx VT cHP xx HK Hanging Chain – 320 / 435
(Corner) sHK, MP xx EX Bullhead xx VT cHP xx HK Hanging Chain – 377 / 528
(Corner) sHK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT cHP xx HP Bullhead – 389 / 608 – EX Chain is 419 / 618 – CA is 593
Post-Stun combos
Jumping over your opponents first makes it easier to position banana peel.
If you’ve stunned your opponent and damage scaling isn’t too high, you can do the following:
j.HK, cMP xx MP Bullhead – 223 – EX Chain is 265 – CA is 427
j.HK, cMP xx Bullhorn – 230 – EX Chain is 265 – CA is 434
j.HK, cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn - 238 – EX Chain is 273 – CA is 442
j.HK, cHP xx HK Chain - 266
j.HK, sHK, sMP xx MP Bullhead - 278 – EX Chain is 314 – CA is 448
j.HK, sHK, sMP xx Bullhorn - 284 – EX Chain is 314 – CA is 454
banana peel, 2f forward walk, njHK, njHK, cHP xx HK Hanging Chain – 298
VT, j.HK, sHK, sMP xx Bullhorn - 295 – EX Chain is 325 – CA is 493 (from MP Bullhead)
VT, j.HK, cHP xx HK Chain - 278
j.HK, sHK, sMP xx VT, LP Bullhead – 322 – EX Bullhead is 338 – CA is 520
j.HK, sHK xx VT, cHP xx HK Chain – 324 – EX Chain is 330
j.HK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 326 – EX Bullhead is 336 – CA is 530
j.HK, sHK, sMP xx EX Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 375 – EX Chain is 397
(corner) j.HK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT, Bullhorn - 330 – EX Chain is 354
(corner) sHK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT(flame whiffs), cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn - 338 – EX Chain is 360 – CA is 535
(corner) j.HK, sHK, sMP xx MP Bullhead xx VT(flame hits), MP Bullhead - 351 – EX Chain is 373 – CA is 555
(corner) j.HK, sHK, sMP xx Bullhorn xx VT(flame whiffs), cHP xx HP Bullhead_Bullhorn - 366 – EX Chain is 381 – CA is 561
VT, MP Bullhead (stun), fdash, Banana, fdash, j.MP, fHK, sHK, cMP xx MP BHd – 499 (132+367) – CA is 703
VT, fthrow (stun), bwalk, Banana, fdash, j.MP, fHK, sHK, cMP xx MP BHd – 511 (144+367) – CA is 715
VT, KH (stun), Banana, fdash, jump, neutraljump HK, stHK, stHK, stMP xx MP Bullhead – 614 (240+374) – CA is 818
Extra situational combos
Jumpin combos:
(corner) crossup j.MP, sHK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT (flames whiff), cHP xx HP Bullhead – 407 / 648 – EX Chain is 430 / 654 – CA is 611
(corner) jump attack, sHK, sMP xx Bullhorn xx VT (flames whiff), cHP xx HP Bullhead – 429 / 676 – EX Chain is 452 / 684 – CA is 619
Extremely hard combos:
(corner) sHK CC, walk, sHK, sMP xx MP Bullhead xx VT, MP Bullhead – 431 / 681 – EX Chain is 459 / 689 – EX Bullhead is 451 / 701 – CA is 635
sHK CC, walk, sHK, sMP xx EX Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 460 / 716 – EX Chain is 488 / 724 – EX Bullhead is 470 / 732
Late cancelling VT Combos:
sHK, sMP xx Bullhorn xx Late VT, EX Chain 402 / 588
cHP xx Bullhorn xx Late VT, MP Bullhead – 325 / 520 – EX Chain is 369 / 532 – CA is 529
(corner) cHP xx Bullhorn xx Late VT, HP Bullhead – 332 / 520 – EX Chain is 369 / 532 – CA is 536
Anti-Air Combos
AA VT, HK Hanging Chain – 257 / 280
AA VT, HP Bullhead – 215 / 280 – CA is 541
AA VT, MP Bullhead – 204 / 280 – CA is 530
AA cHP, HK Hanging Chain – 224 / 330
AA cHP, HP Bullhead – 188 / 330 – CA is 460
AA cHP, MP Bullhead – 179 / 330
Range specific Combos:
EX Bullhead (max range) xx VT, MP Bullhead – 180 / 260 – EX Chain is 238 / 276
Bullhead trades:
HP Bullhead (trade), CA – 425 dmg
HP Bullhead (trade), EX Bullhead – 256 / 425
HP Bullhead (trade), EX Bullhead (1st hit) xx VT, EX Bullhead – 297 / 458
(corner) HP Bullhead (trade), cHP xx EX Chain – 328 / 511
(corner) HP Bullhead (trade), cHP xx MP Bullhead – 280 / 495
(corner) HP Bullhead (trade), cHP xx Bullhorn – 288 / 495
(corner) HP Bullhead (trade), cHP xx MP Bullhead xx VT, MP Bullhead – 396 / 655 – EX Chain is 432 / 665 – CA is 600
(corner) HP Bullhead (trade), cHP xx Bullhorn xx VT, MP Bullhead – 404 / 655 – EX Chain is 440 / 665 – CA is 608
it’s depend of the distance, if the c.hp hit at max range this always work (the flame won’t miss), also work at point range against Laura and Necalli.
against Rashid and Chun you can use the fierce bull head instead.
i found other specific juggle:(point range)bull horn xx VT>ex hanging chain (Birdie, Balrog, Zangief, Fang, Urien)
and the most damaging anti air combo i found is this:
(VT activation flame anti air)>strong bull head xx CA.
Thanks, I updated the list accordingly.
I didn’t realize EX Chain was also character specific.
Well it depends, how high and when they’re hit so it’s a bit specific.
For example, I’ve been able to hit HK Hanging Chain and even Fierce Bullhead instead for more damage.