In training mode I’ll end up on the wrong side sometimes with cross up j.MP in the corner. Hit box is super weird. In matches I do j.MK instead to avoid accidentally losing the corner
Here’s some new tech I’ve lately been using.
Normal Armored Bullheads to stuff blockstrings. I’m mainly using VT MP Bullhead for this purpose since it isn’t as slow as HP and it causes the most pushback (together with LP Bullhead) if it’s blocked.
EX Bullhorn and **EX Bullhead **has armor from the 1st frame
**VT Bullhorn **has armor around frame 2?
fHP and VT Bullhead have armor around frame 3?
Anyways, because it kicks in at earlier frames, they can punish non-true blockstrings.
This post will be updated with all kinds of neat ways to blow these non-true blockstrings up.
A character like Zangief, Ryu (parry) or Mika can make use of these as well I suppose.
Armor punish list
Dhalsim:
- bMK xx MP/HP xx Yoga flame – Everything
Shoto:
- spaced cMK xx Hadoken – Everything
Nash:
- sLP xx any Sonic Boom – Everything
- sMP xx MP/HP Sonic boom – Everything
- sHP xx MP/HP Sonic boom – Everything
Chun Li:
- slide xx VT, normals – VT LP Bullhead and VT EX Bullhead (others will be blocked)
Necalli (also in VT):
- cMK xx LK Stomp – VT Bullhorn, VT EX Bullhead, EX Bullhorn
- cMP xx LK stomp – true blockstring. -4 on block
- cMK/cMP xx MK Stomp – Everything
- cMK/cMP xx HK Stomp – Everything besides VT LP Bullhead
Frame data doesn’t show knockdown frames for V-Trigger specials, so I’ve taken the liberty to test a couple of things. This way everyone can make setups to their heart’s content.
Do be warned that these setups aren’t optimal since they usually don’t cover both quick and back recovery, these setups are just to determine the knockdown frames.
VT knockdown lab results
VT LP Bullhead 25~30~84
hkd – fdash(23), jHK (49), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf85
hkd – backdash (26), fdash (23), fdash(23), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf85
qkd – fHP (26) – +4/-6 – tf26
bkd – cLP (17), sHK (14) – +8/+2 – tf31
VT MP Bullhead 25~30~84
hkd – fdash(23), jHK (49), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf85
hkd – backdash (26), fdash (23), fdash(23), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf85
qkd – fHP (26) – +4/-6 – tf26
bkd – cLP (17), sHK (14) – +8/+2 – tf31
VT HP Bullhead 31~36~90
hkd – cMK (29), jHK (49), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf91
hkd – cMK (29), bdash (26), fdash (23), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf91
qkd – cMP (26), sLP (6) – +5/+4 – tf32
bkd – fdash (23), sHK (14) – +8/+2 – tf37
VT EX Bullhead 32~37~91
hkd – cMK (29), bdash (26), fdash (23), sHK (14) – +7/+1 – tf92
qkd – fdash (23), sMK (10) – +4/+0 – tf33
bkd – sMP (24), sHK (14) – +8/+2 – tf38
VT Bullhorn 35~40~94
hkd – sLP x2 (32), jHK (49), sHK (14) – +8/+2 – tf95
qkd – fdash (23), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf36
bkd – sHP (37), KH (4) – meaty throw – tf41
VT EX Bullhorn 30~35~89
hkd – sMP (24), cMP (26), cMP (26), sHK (14) – +8/+2 – tf90
hkd – sLK (12), sLP (16), jHK (49), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf90
qkd – cLP (17), sHK (14) – +8/+2 – tf31
bkd – fdash (23), sHK (13) – +7/+1 – tf36
Great lab work Angerus, appreciate your efforts.
Good stuff. I’ll work on getting Birdie’s VT data right now, including the knockdown frames on hit VT specials. Gimme like, 3-4 hours or so.
EDIT: just notice a bug with the damage on birdie’s EX Bullhorn in VT. If the EX bullhorn takes away enough VT meter so that you’re no longer in VT, you don’t get the VT damage bonus on it.
and here’s most the VT datas
Do you lose properties on it too? I think I did ex Bullhead at the end of v trigger that didn’t have arnor. Some seemed more punishable too
King Jae put a video up with a couple of meaty setups following knockdowns in the corner and also from ranged hanging drop grabs. Some of this stuff looks alright to me.
I’m really not a fan of setups where you have to manually time the normal or when it only covers 1 option.
For example, if you do Birdie’s overhead after LP Bullhead a bit too fast, then it flatout whiffs. This also means it will lose to back recovery obviously.
I use the crush counter sweep setup myself, coincidentally you can use dfHP instead of LP Bullhead for the same result.
The hanging chain setups are the same as mine and I posted a video about it.
So far, I’ve been hard at work and been able to find setups for nearly all knockdowns but they’re not complete yet. If I’m done I’ll eventually make a full thread here on srk, but so far you can check it out here and chime in a little if you guys have any ideas.
The trial combos are a piece of cake but for some reason I’m having a lot of difficulty doing #6 (j.HP, s.HK ,LP ,EX Bullhead). I can get the first three to link no problem but can never get the EX Bullhead out in time. Any tips? Comparing myself to the demonstration video, I feel like I rush the first part of the set-up and then can’t cancel out of the LP. The rhythm of this specific set really messes me up in ways Birdie’s other combos don’t.
The cancel has to be done so much quicker than mp xx mp bullhead.
I guess I just need to practice executing quicker. I managed to do the cancel correctly once but ended up only inputting a lp bullhead. It was infuriating. At one point I think I spend 15 minutes straight connecting j.HP, s.HK, and LP only to be late on the bullhead over and over and over again. The window seems tiny, but I’m also pretty rubbish.
Use the shoulder buttons rather than hitting two punch buttons if you have a regular pad.
The window IS tiny. I’m only just getting the light-to-Bullhead cancel down semi-regularly, and you pretty much have to piano the buttons.
I swear they’ve replaced the SF4 1-frame links with ridiculously tight cancels in this game to have some execution barrier. I was doing Rashid trials 'cause Rashid’s still mah favorite happy Dubai dude… And any cancel off of his standing or forward MPs feel even harder than the Birdie cancels.
I wonder if there’s some specific technique to these things I’m missing out on… If it matters how fast you input the QCF, if the button needs to be hit within a specific frame window, or if it’s both. With Birdie’s light Bullhead cancels I just do it really really really fast, but I still have no idea how I pulled off those MP cancels with Rashid.
I take back what I’ve been thinking about sticks. That wiggling motion you need to do for smoothly pulling off light cancels in this game feels SO much smoother on a stick than on the PS4 D-pad. Sheesh. Wonder if I’m into this game enough to actually buy and learn a stick…
Yeah, I can’t go back to a gamepad after acclimatizing to a stick. Obviously I still have a long way to go if cancelling into LP Bullhead is giving me issues, but the stick is so much more natural for fighting games. Specifically for Birdie, it makes a big difference for EX moves and charging bullhorn, as well.
If Bullhorn is spaced in the corner, you can let VT hit late. If that happens you can confirm and switch from bullhead into Bullhorn instead for slightly more dmg and knockdown advantage.
Spoiler
325 dmg / 518 stun
post-stun (corner):
- j.HK, sLK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT, Bullhorn - 321 dmg
- j.HK, sLK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT, EX Bullhead - 331 dmg
- j.HK, sLK, cMP xx Bullhorn xx VT, EX Chain - 336 dmg
CC punish in the corner: sHk (cc), cHp xx bullhorn xx VT, exChain 457/645
It came from here:
https://youtu.be/h-dWBcwcUqA
I have to thanks angerus for his list, great work. But everything isn’t 100% optimized right ?
Thanks, it was already in the corner combo section, but I forgot to add it for crush counters.
“- Corner only: cHP xx Bullhorn xx VT, EX Chain – 388 / 532”
Everything else should be 100% optimized though. Some combo enders can be replaced with their EX version for slightly more dmg.
near/at corner:
crush f+HP or AA crush s.HK, cr.HP, HP bullhead, vtrigger, LP bullhead, CA
midscreen:
crush s.HK (hold HK), dash, cr.MP, release HK bullhorn, vtrigger, lp bullhead, CA
Those combos are already on the front page, but thanks for sharing
Ex-Chain Okizeme