After reading this list i concluded that you really dont have a clue about necro, which makes me wonder how much of a clue you have about any of the characters, let alone the game as a whole. Firstly necro isn’t as bad as his tier level suggests, hes hard to use, and rather unpopular, but knowledge of his corner game and footsies makes him very potent in the corner. Anyway, back to why you appear to know nothing:
back throw - designed to do heaps of stun damage, AND IT DOES. Extra damage will make it too good.
drill kicks now descend faster - I couldnt believe my eyes when i saw this, do have any idea how frustrating a drill done immediately after a high jump can be? For your information, it is infact FASTER than a dive kick from the twins, largely because of the size of his body when he does it. Making it faster would be almost impossible to avoid, bar a parry, and even parrying that move can be tricky.
Tornado hook, less recovery overall - does that mean that necro recovers from this move faster than he usually does? If so, you’re an absolute pratt. If u’ve ever played against a necro or used him you’ll know how tiny the window between finishing a jab hook and starting the next one is. Normal moves cant interrupt it, THROWS can’t, only a parry or a fast special with high priority. This suggestion was the dumbest one yet.
SAI - 2 stocks - This move is already able to win otherwise unwinnable matchups as it is. As an antiair move its incredibly potent, and fast, and powerful. Beats down divekicks and assaults from ibuki , just to name a few uses. 2 stocks would simply make this move too good. And it would be possible to link 2 of them together im sure.
b.mp -> db.fierce target combo
and
snake fang unblockable - You’ve hereby made it clear you dont know anything about game mechanics, and also that you dont proof read what uve written. Cancelling b.mp into snake fang would make necro near impossible to beat, you do realise also that snake fang is the farthest reaching command grab in the game? This would make a mixup between the target combo you suggested
and snake fangs unblockability ridiculous.
Phew, I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought that post was way off. It just doesn’t make any sense if balancing the characters was the goal, 99% of the changes are completely groundless. No offense Shiki.
All you have to do to make 3s balanced is nerf chun. She’s the only one that imo is over powered. The late sa2 cancel off cr.mk is retarded and maybe make her cr.jab a little less fast… make it 3 or 4 frame start up instead of 2 frames. She’s pretty much the only one that needs tweaking except Yun’s genei-jin needs some more damage scaling on it
More people need to get better with different characters… look at the jap ranbats. It’s not like anyone who doesn’t play k,c, and y gets raped immediately
I’ve got a couple of issues with your thing shiki, but in general it looks like an interesting concept.
Yun
-I’ve always felt Yun was fine except genai. Just tone down the damage on it, or make it take like tengu-stone like bar, either one and yuns pretty much good to go.
Makoto
-I dunno, maybe tone down some of the stun damages and be good.
Dudley
-Ducking is already useful enough for plowing through fireballs and under jump-ins, I don’t really think duds needs to many changes at all, if any.
Oro
-Changing the lengths of the builds of oros bars doesn’t really do that much for him, because most of his meter comes from chicken combos that build 75% of tengu as it is.
Akuma
-Im pretty sure demon IS instant at point-blank, at the very least they can’t jump or anything.
Alex
I agree with the change to make SA2 connect more often, the rest I don’t know about.
Ibuki:
Oh god no. It’s already really fast and combo-able normally (out of HK). If anything, I’d make it push back less to make random jump in, HKxRaida less safe against most of the cast.
Hugo:
No thank you.
Necro:
-What was said before.
Remy:
-Dunno and don’t care
Q:
-Just make a couple of his normals cancelable and be good to go.
12:
-I think just giving him a couple ground combos that do more than shit for damage is fine. I like the idea of short air chains, too.
Anyways, I really agree with the other people who have said that 3S is pretty good as is. Only things I don’t like about it are Chun and Genai, but oh well. Not like theres something I don’t like about every game.
I’ll agree to this one. When you see Yun in action, it’s clear that it’s not his basic game that puts him on top, but it’s the Genei-Jin. With Chun, even without her crazily strong super,she has moves with so much priority and speed that other characters don’t really have, but it’s compensated for by her lack of good combos outside the super. Ken has a great offensive mix-up game,but you CAN stop him. I’ll point out a few players who can show you that the tiers don’t COMPLETELY dominate: Hayao and YSB (Hugo), Kuroda(Q), Hossy and Kechu (Ibuki), and Frankie3s (Ryu,who whupped Pyrolee in a match you can easily find on youtube).
Let’s be thankful this isn’t 2nd Impact, where Ken could link SA3 from EX tatsu.
You have no idea how to even buff certain characters.
Take Urien! You suggested his c.MP should be increased by 3 whole damage! That’s not why it sucks massive cocks! It’s because it’s a high/low parry move that you can see coming and leaves Urien crouching, as well as being a horrible poke. Somone can blindly OS parry and rape your health bar for you deciding “Hey 8 (11) damage!” You’re nerfing Ken when he is probably the character people should seek to balance the game around, he has everything and is not amazing at everything, he has no flaws and no major strengths, why not make every character as good as Ken, rather than make a well made character suck? Making Elena’s Down MK supercancelable is DUMB. Every character already fucking has that and you just basically made her a slightly weaker Chun.
All I would do is give SAIII an extra frame of startup (just so he can’t punish moves that actually hit him) and give him a very slight overall damage nerf, ~5% max. Most of the characters from like Ken to Necro are fine.
I’ll admit I never played/liked Necro outside of New Generation. My post was meant for fun and discussion, so don’t take it personally, you pissant.
Back Throw–I don’t think it would be too good. It would make him more a hybrid-grappler. Which was my point. Necro floundered throughout all 3 SF3 games I feel because making him a “Dhalsim-Blanka” hybrid (I’m exaggerating here, so don’t get all pissy) just wasn’t effective. If “SF 3.5” came out, I’d prefer to see him with a new gameplay style.
Drill Kicks–I don’t think it’s a bad change since his active hitbox would also be shorter
Tornado Hook–I should have specified the MP and HP Hooks. My bad.
SA1–It was 2 stocks in NG, and didn’t break the game then, so…
Target Combo–Apparently you fail at reading comprehension. Making the B.MP–>DB.HP target combo UNCANCELLABLE (which is what I said) means that the B.MP is also now UNCANCELLABLE to anything but DB.HP.
Snake Fang–By making it unblockable it also means that you can’t grab parries/blockstun/hitstun. Which means it is now uncomboable. Plus, the fact that his arm is now a vulnerable hitbox mean he can be poked out of it, which discourages spamming and sticking it out improperly. Hardly game-breaking, but it DOES make Necro more interesting as a hybrid-grappler.
My bad, my purpose was to make SF3.5, a more interesting and faster-paced game with more viable characters.
Not just to nerf Ken and Chun to make a rehashed, homogenized version of good ol’ boring 3S.
My purpose was to tweak Urien, not buff him. In my opinion Urien is probably the closest out of all the cast to already being a good, viable, but balanced character.
As such, I’m not trying to make his c.MP any more viable as poke. Yes, the move sucks, and should probably stay that way, but for it to suck AND do piss poor damage just doesn’t make any sense.
I don’t think Ken is that well-made in this game. All of his normals do more damage than ALEX, who is bigger, slower, SUPPOSED to be stronger, has much less combos, is meant to poke more, and is SUPPOSED to be the main character in the game. How does that make sense?
Elena is basically a watered-down Chun in 3S, why not make her the “new” Chun in 3.5?
yeah, on second thought. make kens super 1 frame slower. fast enough so it still combos off strong fierce, but too slow to link off c.mp and back+mk. and very a slight damage nerf overall.
Firstly how can you even begin discussing the ins and outs of a character who you have never used, and never been curious enough to want to at least get to know? Half the points I wish to advance were already mentioned in my previous post, yet they seem to have been overlooked, so read back carefully, plebian (… Thats it, go look it up:rolleyes:).
Ok, you want to change his gameplay style, but for what reason? Just to let you know, necro’s wins exist by and large, in his corner game. When he’s not there he’s worse than poor, when he is, you have a game winning oppurtunity. Hardly any characters in the game are like, dudley is the only character who vaguely matches that description. You know what? That actually makes him quite interesting, and entertaining (you better look those up too)! Aaaand… no hes not really a dhalsim blanka hybrid, and if you’re going to cover ure ass by saying you’re exagerating straight afterwards, it would probably be best if you kept your mouth shut from the beginning.
Drill kicks - sigh - Conjure up some form of rebuttal against what I said in the previous post, because every necro player will say the same thing as I previously have. And using one’s head for a second, one would realise than necro spinning down to the ground, with the same animation 'til he reaches it, is always in a state of being able to hit an opponent, no matter what speed he is travelling at. So that thing you said about active hit frames is a load of bull, because it will still be, and always will be a meaty no matter what you decide to fiddle with about it. Same as gouki’s and yun’s divekicks. Oh and one other thing about your turn-him-into-a-grappler theory: Did you ever think that having such a fast drill kick, combined with grappling ability would be a bit too powerful? The best comparison to that is alex, eg. jumping jab, command grab on landing; necro would just be this, but infinitely more potent. Think about it…
Tornado hook, strong and fierce: These move upon hit are both extremely nasty, mp because of the super cancel into SAIII and obviously the massive advantage in the case of the fierce. Thats the entire point of these 2 moves, making them less punishable just means people can whore the strong hook out instead of jab, which doesnt have AS many possibilities afterwards, though it still kicks ass.
SAI - already does good damage, and is very fast, with good range. 2 of these stocked reminds a bit of houyokusen, and being able to stock 2 of this super while being a “hybrid grappler” as you say will make him too powerful.
Target combo - Apparently you fail at life… If you expected anyone to understand YOUR definition of “uncancellable”, you can crawl back under that rock. Saying non-cancellable at the end of the command insists that the db.fierce is non-cancellable. And remember, those 2 moves you suggested do massive damage as well as 22 pts of stun, from a move which is fast and has great recovery. And don’t forget (or dont you know??) the juggles that can proceed from db.fierce against some characters in the corner. DB.fierce x 6 just becomes even easier to land.
Snake fang - regular command throw properties - errrrrr… firstly you are wrong about it not hitting upon parry stun, it will, in the same way gigas or hyperbomb does if cancelled from a parried move. And yeah, this would be way to safe a move anyway due to its range, you simply get a character who can play on throw mindgames, without being anywhere near the opponent. Ridiculous huh? And finally not one player sticks this move out improperly, its punishable upon block, read up on your facts.
This is nothing more than discussion, which is what you requested, so don’t take it personally . And fun? What b*****ks, if you really want to change 3s that much you can go make your own game.
So get rid of his overhead super, and a very good counter poke into super. That is a huge nerf. Would it still be able to punish a blocked low forward/standing roundhouse/ (ex) fireball?
That would basically mean that uoh -> super wouldnt work either =(. So then all people would have to do is block low. Damn, thinking about it, ken’s whole game is basically around how many ways he can land shippu. Now he would just have really strong fierce, c.short x2, and low forward. No links makes ken a sad boy.
take a bit of range off of Chun’s s.HP and slow down her c.MK
Get rid of Ken’s ability to cancel into SA3 off of c.Short
Lower Genei Jin active time for Yun
Give Denjin two stocks for Ryu
Q needs better wakeup
12 needs more damage potential and more damage dealing ability
Remy needs longer stun and more health.
Alex needs to learn to drive the SUV… He should also do more damage, with more priority.
Dudley’s rose should not deal block damage first of all. At least not when your bar is green. Otherwise, take away maybe one of his normals that he can use on opponent’s wakeup. The guessing is hard enough.
Makoto… well, she has alot of damage and stun, tone her down some but take off some Hayate recovery frames.
Necro… No idea. I don’t have much time with/against Necro so I can’t say anything.
Hugo - Raise Gigas Priority and make it beat out UoH. Bit less damage?
Yang- More health with bigger stun. Make him faster than Yun by alot.
Urien - I agree. pretty good guy. Just make him less glitchy, though its not a big deal.
Oro - Make Tengu Stone automatically 5 stone super. Use EX version for more powerful stones and use normal super for longer time with stones out. Increase his health and speed him up on the ground. Make his double jump go higher and reduce his air throw’s startup by 1 frame.
Gill- Take him out and Put Shin Akuma back in, or even better, Sheng Long!
Lowering active time on Genei Jin only lets Yun deal less damage per GJ it doesn’t really balance anything. It just means more of the round is going to be runaway Yun til he has bar. If you are going to change GJ make it a larger bar to build but keep the current active time the same.
Denjin with two stocks? Are you serious? Do you really wanna get stunned and then j. fierce, cr. fierce, ex donkey kick, ex dragon punched or double stun set-ups?? You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Stun or damage. Pick.
You can’t Gigas when people are in the air. It cannot beat UoH. If it does then you’d be able to Gigas people when they are in the air… That would be insane. Basically this would enable air Gigas, a novel concept, but come on…
Yang is underrated as is. He deals crazy stun and good damage with ex mantis slash combos. His problem (IMO) is that he is a one trick pony. All his damage comes from mantis slashes. He needs more options to deal damage not just dealing more damage or being able to take more hits to land mantis slashes.
That’s why you make Alex BETTER. Ken is a shoto, which means he’s suppose to be well rounded and within the game mechanics he already is. Chun is a beefed up Elena, in case you couldn’t tell, minus command overheads. Why make someone the “new” Chun when you can just have a balanced Chun and then Elena? If Urien needed tweaking, he needs in one department: An escape mechanism that’s punishable. He sucks massive dicks under pressure and thats why a lot of his matchups are 6-4 vs pressure/top tiers. Something that could bail him out vs Akuma and Ibuki would push him up to Ken level alone.
My point is you’re balancing in all the wrong ways. You’re beefing up characters yes, but you’re not focusing on their existing bullshit and improving something that isn’t part of their character. Necro doesn’t need more rushdown, he has great rushdown, accentuate his ranged attacks, considering he’s supposed to play more of a Dhalsim/Rushdown hybrid. When you give Urien minor +damage on normals when he’s your center of balance, he’s not your center of balance.
. And fun? What b*****ks, if you really want to change 3s that much you can go make your own game.