Ask Kim1234 about random Bison sh*t!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
81

The crouching short thing annoys the crap out of me. I’ve been practicing a lot recently with a really good Vega, and we’ve found that Vega’s low hitbox is deceptively small. After a blocked lk scissors, even though it looks like you’re close enough for a second low short, you’re often out of range. This is also an issue when trying to link cr. shorts, where I’ll hit the first one, do a second one thinking that he’s still within range, and have it whiff.

EDIT: Looking at the hitbox videos, it seems like his hitable box is behind almost his entire front foot. This is the case whether he’s crouching or standing :sad:

82

Fei vs Dic in Fei’s favor ? lol ?

83

I got the same crazy look reaction when I suggested on another forum that Fei beats Bison.

Bison has the advantages of better footsies in terms of poke range and movement speed. But Fei’s pokes are not that dramatically inferior to Bison’s. He losses the footsies war but not by too much.

Air to air Bison has a good chance of landing j.mpx2 into ultra 1 on most of Fei’s air moves accept neutral jump roundhouse.

On the other hand Fei has better damage output, a better wake up game and has an answer for all of Bison’s wake up options, either with option selects or being able to punish Bison’s reversals on block or reaction.

Fei is also very good at pushing Bison to the corner, thanks to the distance his Rekka’s travel. Once he has Bison in the corner and Bison knows his reversals are no good to him, Bison exposes himself to Fei’s command throw and his overhead.

I also reckon Fei has good options for dealing with Bison’s scissor kick trap.

The one difference of opinion I hear greatly about is how good chicken wing is. Some insist Bison can roundhouse it on reaction while others insist its too fast and gives Fei a free way in. (this coming from both Bison and Fei players).

Anyway Kimi, do you agree/disagree with what I have just written above or have anything to add to it. Any other info on the Fei Long match up you want to share.

84

Nope, I think ssf4 is a much less in-depth game then vanilla. And the solution for most situations is to lame it out

There are specifics to the Fei match but The short answer is just be lame.

Btw Fei shouldn’t ever be jumping

85

I also think that Fei Long has an advantage over DIC. Evans, when you defeated me at Stunfest, even though you knew the matchup a lot more and obviously outplayed me, I saw that Fei Long has a counter to pretty much anything Dictator can do. After that, I studied the matchup and here’s my reasoning: The only thing Bison has over Fei Long is slightly better footsies. Fei Long’s damage is greater, his footsies are very good, he can punish all the shit Dictator can throw, and Dictator cannot pressure on the corner because of the threat of chicken wing. Sure, I can punish it, but it’s very little damage for swapping positions, and doing OS to prevent it has proven to be really troublesome. Dictator is going to end in the corner sooner than Fei Long, he can’t get out, and Fei Long’s corner rape is just as scary as Bison’s. When I talk about chicken wing, I do not mean doing it at max range, as you can tag it easily with a s.roundhouse, but doing it in your face.

Fei Long is as strong as a character or maybe even stronger than Bison, and as I’m writing this, I’m watching how Mago is raping Momochi, and showing the world his potential.

Anyway, thanks for sharing information Kim1234, obviously you are the most experienced Bison on this board and it’s a very interesting read.

I wanted to ask something about Cammy, as i’m having a lot of trouble with her. I don’t even know how a lot of people consider it 6:4 for Bison. My greatest problem is also a very simple one. How the hell do you prevent her from jumping freely on you? She seems to beat every antiair DIC has, but it looks like her jumpins, like her j.roundhouse from long range and her divekick from short range, outright beats a lot of characters antiairs. Is there something you do to stuff her high priority jumps?

86

I’m a bit lazy so i will just answer to HellTPpm’s post right under :

“The only thing Bison has over Fei Long is slightly better footsies.”

There isn’t many footsies in this matchup, Fei will just back and forth to bait whiffed knee press then punish it or hold his focus attack to catch knee press while Dic will try to EX PC Fei’s focus or back and forth/hold downback to punish whiffed rekkas.
There isn’t Dic’s poke that Fei can punish if whiffed cause of their range (I don’t think that a Dic player will throw random far.mk/far.hk just for the fun ^^’).

“Fei Long’s damage is greater”

True, even if Fei needs to corner Dic which is quite difficult (read what i said just above)

“his footsies are very good”

There isn’t many footsies (…)

“he can punish all the shit Dictator can throw”

Really ? except EX PC, i don’t know which “shit” you are mentioning :o

“Dictator cannot pressure on the corner because of the threat of chicken wing. Sure, I can punish it, but it’s very little damage for swapping positions, and doing OS to prevent it has proven to be really troublesome.”

Trust me, once you’ll punish one CW escape, the Fei player will not try it again whereas he can just block and lose less health. Fei’s opportunities to inflict damages to Dic are so precious that he better keep the health lead to force Dic to take risks.
For more, i think that Dic can safe “jump” (with headpress) Fei on wake up.

“he can’t get out, and Fei Long’s corner rape is just as scary as Bison’s”

I’m agree, Fei’s corner pressing is just insane and Dic cannot get out, BUT, if Fei doesn’t do the right choice, he can lose the momentum because of one knee press.

In my opinion this match-up is 6-4 in Dic’s favor cause out of the corner Fei must take bigger risks than Dictator who just have to WAIT.
If Fei’s damage potentiel in the corner would not be that good, i think the match up would be 7-3 in Dic’s favor >.>

87

Hey Kim

Why?

88

Bisons matchups.

[quote=“HellTpm, post:85, topic:113066”]

I also think that Fei Long has an advantage over DIC.

Hay Kim, thanks again for making this thread so that others like me can have contact with you.
Alright to HellTpm (i completely agree with you) and to the rest of the bison players,
After playing Bison so damn long, i learned that most of the match-ups where players feel its in bisons favor or are on that gay ass event hubbs tier lists are completely wrong because one they dont take into consideration simple things like options and damage output which goes for alot since we arent human and we dont play perfect every fucking time.

  1. Bison loses to Viper 6-4 she takes to much damage for a free roaming character that has as much mobility as she does compared to bison who is trying to play footsies, and must charge for his 90 dmg 0 on block scissors. head-stomp has low success rate and devil easily gets punished by ex seismo. now on a good note cr short is very good against her and he can pin her in the corner very well as for his damage output well i don’t think i have to say.

  2. Fei long also beats bison 6-4 i actually agree that bison has a slight footsie advantage, but that is easily crushed by focus attacks or that fact that rekkas can whiff punish all my normals, lets not even start with the damage output first of all when bison has fei pinned down fei never has to block in theory he can always do rekkakyaku or just dp while when he has me pinned down he can meaty his cr. jab safely without worry of any of bisons options headstomp will whiff, ex pc will be blocked and then rekka’ed for sure teleport LOL go head and try that can rekkakyaku’ed or just rekka’ed. i would say on a good note for bison he can anti air him but fei’s jump in strong puts that to shame.

  3. abels beats bison 6.5-3.5 abel takes way to much damage!!! bison has to guess way too much while trying to maintain charge and again i can be OS ta hell, ya know for a character that everyone says has great wake up options he sure can be simply os not only that when i play other bisons i dont even i os i watch and then do the appropriate punishment. ( but enough babbling)

  4. Akuma beats bison 6-4 bison has to chase and maintain charge and the punishment you suffer for chasing and making a mistake is to great deal of damage.
    Also you cant afford to play lame against akuma ( i will explain why later)

  5. ryu vs bison is 6-4 ryu 5-5 when bison has meter.

  6. ken vs bison 5-5

  7. gen vs bison 7-3 bisons favor

  8. gief vs bison 6-4 gief

  9. cammy beats bison 6-4

  10. honda beats bison 6.5 -3.5

  11. vega vs bison 5-5

  12. guile vs bison 7-3

  13. blanka vs bison 6-4 blanka

  14. sagat vs bison 6-4 sagat bison has to take too many risks to get in and sagat can safely maul him.

  15. chun li vs bison 5-5 chun mmmm im still unsure about this matchup to be honest

  16. Ibuki vs bison 6-4 ibuki another character that has heavy damage output from safe setups and can easily punish my escape options and most importantly she can jump in on me free. but i can scissor trap her decently but if she presses the right button i lose a ton. but the trade off is that she does not have that much health.

  17. sim vs bison im still unsure about this matchup i think its 5-5 but sims damage has been buffed and for some retarded fucking reason bisons has went down. im not sure gotta do more studying.

18.seth vs bison 6-4 bison

  1. adon loses to bison 6-4

  2. bison beats dee jay 6-4

  3. Dudley vs bison 5-5 Dudley does damage but not to often does he have those chances to but in turn he can jump in on bison and play footies and dudley has a really good focus.

  4. gouken vs bison is 5.5-4.5 gouken

  5. makoto vs bison 5-5

  6. rose vs bison 6-4 bison (thats bisons bitch man)

  7. sakura vs bison 6-4 sakura dmg output is too much and she get it from normals also playing footsies with her would be great but she can jump in and well ya know.

  8. rufus vs bison 5.5 -4.5 bison

27.elfuerte vs bison - 6-4 fuerte

  1. cody vs bison 5-5

29.balrog vs bison 6-4 balrog

  1. juri vs bison 6-4 juri

  2. guy vs bison 5-5

  3. t. hawk vs bison mmm well i dont know seems like its in bison favor by alot but i dont wanna jump to any conculsions.

  4. hakan loses to bison 7-3 for now.

  5. bison vs bison is 9-1 when one bison has a lead lol

yeah this is just my opinionated tier lists or at least the way i think things are, nothing said in stone here. and i welcome suggestions and rebuttals just so you know we can all come to an agreeable conclusion because i know i wont be 100 percent agreed with and thats fine because all of you are also godlike bison players and your opinions should be taken seriously but i know we can all agree that bison is not number 2 in the game ! not even on paper.

89

Thanks Kim. Great viper technique there.
On sagat, I was hoping to find something to interrupt the strings, or at least guess interrupt (besides ultra1), as I’d like to stay close to Sagat instead of being pushed back into his optimal zoning range. Looks like there’s not much Dic can do though, unfortunately.

90

I know you also use match up numbers to make it easier to express your thoughts… but I want to know, like, are there some 5-5 match ups you list up there that you feel are still agonizing or frustrating to play because of pacing? Same question I asked Kim, how do you feel about using match up numbers or just numbers in general, Jago?

91

did my mom put my clothes in the dryer or is this thread tiiiight

92

Whenever I get home from work, I’m going to test if O/S slide (in this case after a knockdown low jab, low jab+slide) vs a wake up Fei long chicken wing.

I’m pretty sure it can tag the recovery of his chicken wing but will not counter his backdash, which would then make me think O/S’s are useless vs Fei.

Which would then make me think Fei wins the match up because you have to always worry about Countering a shit load of safe wake ups

93

I mean numbers are the Universal language of human beings, so using numbers is fine its a way we can all communicate with each other cut and clear if i say gief beats rose 6-4 then you understand just how much of an advantage he has over her, as for why that can be discussed in detail get me?

94

Use OS Roundhouse to punish CW and backdash, only problem is Flame Kick: Safe Jump into Cross Up with OS Rh is very good against Fei :wink:

95

Hi Kim1234 & TwistedJago,

I’m a pretty constant tournament goer in my region (Australia) and I can regularly score good results with my Bison, I’ve traveled to EVO this year and made top 8 in my pools (but didn’t make it out, it was pool A in my defense).
I’ve got a couple of questions for both of you if you don’t mind!

The first is about Guile, not really how to play against him but your general mindset in a tournament compared to what I’m thinking.
Now I’m pretty serious when I go to a tournament, and I want to take the tournament, but I feel that If I’m vsing equal level players that choose Guile, that I shouldn’t win.
I feel that Bison lacks the solid game in that match up, and any wins you do get are off the Guile players mistakes (even ex psycho crusher gets punished by a flash kick on block).

I understand the feeling that people should learn their bad match ups to get better at them, but if it’s “that bad” and you realistically want a chance to take out the tournament, shouldn’t you have a secondary character?

Back in Vanilla when Guile wasn’t such a solid character, I would find I wouldn’t run into them very often and it wasn’t an issue. But now even the #1 Ryu players have Guile as a secondary and can play him quite well, so I find myself at a loss.

[media=youtube]ETfpNMc7agw&feature=player_embedded[/media]

Here’s the match I had recently in nationals that knocked me out of the tournament (netting 7th place).
When I played that player’s main character (Blanka) I was easily able to deal with him, so you could say I’m slightly salty at the match up.

As a side question for TwistedJago - who knocked you out of the Seasons Beatings? I know you dropped your game vs Mike Ross but I didn’t see who else (you were in winners from beating Daigo).

Second question is about ultra 1 in two match ups - Cammy and Abel.
I don’t really see much of a use for Ultra 1 in the Abel match up except to prediction punish TT’s, but I see a lot of Bison players use it over Ultra 2, why is that?
In the Cammy match up, I find that If I pick Ultra 1 she will always try to cross up cannon strike me instead, but I’m not sure that I get many chances to actually hit the Ultra (It’s even hard to punish a whiffed cannon spike with it in comparison to Ultra 2), what’s your opinions on it?

96

I’m just compiling player opinions, so don’t feel too pressed to justify your answer. I just want to know how you stand on things. If there’s anything I’ve noticed, the numbers are used to make discussion a bit less drawn out. Like you said, you can always work out the details later. Thanks for answering my question, still working on this little project of mine but I want some credible sources is all.

97

Both Andre and Kim have different styles of play and both have pretty interesting list opinions.

For comparison sake, I’m going to repost Haritsuka An’s list from a while back.

Bison Vs ___
Advantage
6.5
Gouken, Hakan, Dan
6
Juri, Sakura, Makoto, Gen
5.5
Rufus, Claw, Blanka, C.Viper, Abel, Guy, Rose, Cody, Fuerte
5
Ken, Sagat, Feilong, Boxer, Dudley, Ibuki, T.Hawk, Adon
Disadvantage
4.5
Chunli, Akuma, Dee Jay, Ryu, Seth
4
Dhalsim, Zangief, Cammy
3.5
E.Honda
3
Guile

98

Yeah, Vega’s c.jab has a disjointed hitbox, which means that his claw doesn’t have an hurtbox and it extends over our c.shorts and that’s why it always seems to beat it.

99

Pretty sure I got skipped. What’re some good things to do against Balrog (Boxer), Blanka, and Honda? I have so much fucking trouble with these guys it’s not even funny.

100

where did you find this?