The topic is worthy enough for it’s own thread, but it’s not specific to Bison, and we already have a frame trap thread.
Anyway, if the opponent is throwing you or counter-hitting you out of st.hp, use a different frame trap. If your opponent is good at altering his tech timing, then yes you have to guess. Doesn’t matter if they’re stand teching, you can still counter-hit them, or even better you can hit them with a low.
I know there is a frame trap thread but what I’m talking about has less to do with frame traps and more to do with the discussion of escape options opponents have.
Yeah that article made actually motivated me to do that write up. I felt it excluded the stand throw option as it counters some counter hit setups. I totally agree everything can be countered.
I’ll admit it was a hard read. But I’ll try and say my piece
You are getting too caught up on one or two specific counters. Yes, I say it’s best to play at a safe distance, but when you are in up close you have to commit to a decision
Low short to frame trap stand fierce is not reliable to do on an opponent you haven’t been able to condition yet
A big part of being good at SF is safe gambling. If you would have done an O/S stand roundhouse that would eliminate his backdash and mashing. If you would have done a low short, he can mash uppercut afterwards to luckily hit you. If you are playing bison and you choose to attack you are definitely gambling, keep that in mind
One thing I don’t agree on is that the opponent has more options on wake up. You’re just not applying pressure accurately. When you score a knockdown , that is when you read someone.
As a safe rule, after one knockdown, don’t attack, back off to a little of throw range and see what they do.
After the first read, maybe on the second read choose to commit to some attack pattern
Depending on how unpredictable the player seems, sometimes i won’t attack after a knockdown until after the 5th knockdown
Also low short , stand fierce frame trap isn’t the only one out there.*
What kim means is that in SF you never know for sure what your opponent is going to do, no matter how obvious you think his choice will be. We’re not psychic. You can be 99% sure, and he’s probably gonna do what you think he’s gonna do because you trained him to do it. He’s going to follow a pattern, and it’s the perfect bait, and still, you’re not sure. He might even fail the input.
It’s always a gamble. Always.
Only a few things aren’t gambles, like whiffing a jab from fullscreen away. Almost everything at mid-close range is a gamble. That’s why you whiff rapid moves (playing footsies), to bait slower pokes, and then punish them with your own pokes xx scissors, etc. Super Turbo baby.
If you train your opponent into doing something, then you have a better shot of pulling off whatever the fuck you want.
Just remember that it’s not that easy. If you bait them into something obvious, they’ll know. You have to pick up on those subtle patterns/mistakes that they make, that they don’t even notice themselves.
Some people backdash constantly on wakeup, for example. It’s almost something they can’t help.
Others always jump when you “trigger” a certain distance and crouch. You cross that line, you lower your character, and they instantly jump. It’s their instinct. And you can fuck that up.
SF is about turning your 50/50 into 95/5 and gambling off of that chance the whole game.
This also applies to Guile, for example. What makes Guile hard, is that he hardly has any holes, but if you can get close enough and jump before a sonic boom that he’s about to throw, then you’re in. Only way to pull that off is to train him into doing them. Which usually means: taking damage.
Here is a question about the [media=youtube]OoIaBS6kBXU"[/media].
I’m really curious about your use of focus attack at 1:01, after the ‘c.jab, s.jab, s.short’ chain. You use that string again at 3:11, but instead of showing focus after the chain, you show nothing. So, my guess is that you used focus in an attempt to condition jwong so that he’d go for a risky anti-focus tactic the next time he saw the ‘c.jab, s.jab, s.short’ chain.
My questions are: Am I right about why you showed focus, or was there something else behind it? Is this a tactic you use in every matchup, or is this string good for the Rufus match in particular? And do you have any tips/advice about using focus within strings? I never use it because I’m scared of taking the risk, but clearly it’s a viable tactic in some situations.
The first time I did a focus, it was a nervous twitch. I realized right before I did the level 1 focus at 1:01 that it wasn’t a good idea. I intended to do a level 2 focus but had a feeling he would be feeling jumpy
At 3:11, the whole reason why I do low jab, stand jab, stand short is because it’s a true block combo. There’s no way for him to mash on ex messiah in between any of those light attacks. Sometimes depending on the distance, my next low short after the above chain attack would whiff on Rufus. I decided to take the safe route and wait a second , then do it.
Using focus attack is an easy mode way of getting in. It wasn’t needed at 1:01. But I felt I lost my charge so I was eager to get in. That was my initial thought
Just use focus attack in various parts of your match and experiment
Like I said before I’m not a fan of spoon-feeding information
What works for me might not work for you
You have all the information in front of you to study
Well, I would like to add that not a damn thing has changed about my opinion Bison if i were to rate him is still MEH ! i swear to god capcom cannot make balanced games.
On that we all know on a basic level fighting games start with the basic attributes health and damage output, fine Bison has neither and im cool with that because ya know ya got your chuns and roses but what i am not ok with is the fucking tools that he does not have that the others do to offset his short comings!!! chun has nice low health but high fucking stun, godlike backdash and hella limb priority meaning aka she should and more then likely will be landing hits more then you to off set the fact that.
Hmmm i think we call that priority. Alright cool, cool bisons got some godly limbs imo right? thats fine but so do others, and the shit that pisses me off are the ones who have the ability to swing and then swing again ona whiff , allow me to explain, ever jump over ryus cr. fwd and eat a cr/ fierce ? ever seen chun poke an abel or ryu to death with st. strong then finally they jumped she presses it anyway it whiffs and she anti airs them anyway. now ask yourself whens the lasts time you pressed st. fwd and somebody jumped at you and where able to swing again hmmmm w/e will just block right. no! jump ins enable way to much mix up and pressure in sf4 which i would be fine with if i didnt happen to main a character that shows me how much bullshit this game is, its nice that they wanted to combine casual and hardcore gamers with the idea of making this game easy, but this shits getting crazy.
lemmie just throw some food for thought out there for you guys Low fwd thunder knuckle from viper takes 180, while short x3 into scissors takes 119 hmmm w/e right feurtes shower kick into 6 standing jabs take more then short x 3 sk, long story short Bisons damage output is ass (i mean so ass i have Gief players asking me why did they do that to him also why did they nerf our ex headstomp and our scissor kick arrgggggggghhhh!!) and he has little to nothing to offset the fact that he deals little dmg in a game where they want people to win and to play as easy as possible. Revenge meter is so stupid ( you will realize this if you play bison aka you never really get to land your ultra) people are allowed to manage there meter for free and store free damage in the back for getting fucked up.
How do you suggest avoiding being a #3 as Bison? I feel like that’s where I am. I’m not afraid to hold forward when the time is right, but converting that aggression can be tricky.
I’m curious to what he has to say to that, but it seems to me it has to do with safe gambling again. Walking forward at the beginning of the round and hitting st. forward is a gamble, but it definitely shows your opponent you’re not afraid to convert into that aggression, whereas jumping back or walking back at the beginning of the round might put your opponent more at ease.
can people stop replying like their some pro bison player (unless your andre etc), I dont really care about your responses unless its from kim1234 hence its a ask kim1234 thread not ask armchair quarterback bison thread
I feel your pain Andre
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Bison has to be ten times smarter then his opponent and even when he has the momentum on his side, and even knows exactly what his opponent will do… you have to hold back on your offense or give up position. The reason for this is simply because Bison does shit damage.
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That’s why you have to know every single thing about all match ups you may encounter. There are so many holes in bison’s gameplay that he has to be hesistant at all times.
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It’s not fun playing super safe all the time. But that’s the only way to win with bison.
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During SBO, I had to sandbag like crazy. Since it was a one game situation, I didn’t give any of the top players any clue on when to mash on uppercut.
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People are desperate vs bison, because bison is annoying. Not because bison is very good.
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Its up to the player to make bison good, the character won’t take you too far.
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Bison is too balanced. He is
neither special in the defense department or the offense department. But he’s very hot in the “long pokes that dont do any damage or lead to any setups” department
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On the positive side, I think 99 seconds isnt that long and I’ve been accustomed to it. I’ve gotten plenty of near time out wins with only about 20% of my life being diminished.
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Scrubs= random vs bison cause they dont know
Good players=random vs bison because they DO know
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Think about that
Read in the SRK Japan thread that if a foreigner were to be caught with marijuana, he’d be expatriated back to his country and be possibly banned for life. Natives will go to jail for that shit as well.
Though that’s not really answering the question, it is far less likely that it’d be as widespread as it is in america~
Depends on if you have anybody near you that can crack your defense. If your defensive play is working, make that better. When you find someone that makes you nervous when you play and constantly gets in on you, make a mental note of why you got hit and how you can counter it.
It’ll be a little interesting when we find out the bison changes in the SSF4 blog. I bet we’ll be able to tell instantly if bison will change for the better or remain the same