isnt that the point?
Russia has a definitive problem with imigration and racism. They get mongolian immigrants and Pakistani, slavic. They also have a budding white power/nazi movement. I know your stupid but really, off of the conversation.
But why tweak the rules to make something easier for people?
If you were to immigrate to someone else’s country could you necessarily blame the people in said country for not wanting you there because you were there illegally and didn’t bother to go through the proper channels to come legally?
I’ll just say this. +3 incoming individuals who will be classified as Illegal Immigrants as soon they cross the border.
My parents were immigrants who came here legally on student visas, but I completely reject any kind of moral high ground I could claim over that fact.
On the other hand, do illegal immigrants have a leg to stand on as far as legal protection goes? Probably not. “Should” they get deported if they are caught? Well, what alternative system of reform is being suggested that would make things fair for anyone? I don’t see one.
As for racial profiling, I have only a few comments. To my knowledge, it’s entirely legal within certain contexts, although the possibility of the boundaries of those contexts being expanded does give me pause. Racial profiling is repugnant, and a convenient but ugly patch-work solution to deep social problems that don’t have easy answers.
My job security isn’t threatened by illegal immigrants, since I work in IT, but it is profoundly affected by something also pretty controversial–intellectual property law. Does it even make sense for me to determine my stance on such issues because I have vested interest in the practical outcomes of the legal system? No, but I’ll probably do so anyway. For that reason, I can even stomach reading the most irrational, puke-inducing vitriol in this thread and still come away not bitter. Just remind me to keep a puke bucket handy.
or any other country most likely lol
why exactly should we make it easier? people are gonna come either way, the biggest hindrance to pain free legal immigration is in fact illegal immigration.
As long as the United states is prosperous, and neighboring countries are not, we will have a problem with illegal immigration. It’s as simple as that.
There’s a reason why I have this particular Orwell quote as my signature: “Either we all live in a decent world, or nobody does.” It happens to apply perfectly in this situation. The Arizona law is treating the symptoms and not the cause. There are many things the United States could do to improve the situation in Mexico without spending a dime. One of the main things is ending the war on drugs.
Corruption is rampant in Mexico and parts of South America, and the reason for that is the powerful drug cartels that operate there. Our drug laws give them market protection and the hundreds of millions of users in the United States and elsewhere give them all the funding they need to breach, infiltrate, and influence at all levels of government.
Now I know what some of you must be thinking: “How is any of this our problem?” Well as I’ve stated before, it’s in our own interest to institute domestic policy that does not adversely affect other countries, especially neighboring ones. The more we contribute to the corruption in Mexico, the more it will suffer economically, and the more we will see refugees looking for opportunity in the United States.
So my argument is basically this: Instead of compromising our own liberties and consciences through racial profiling and the unsavory practice of hunting down, oppressing, and scapegoating the people who work the worst jobs for the least amount of pay, let us first try a more humanitarian approach. Let us see what we can do to make Mexico a better place to live. Like I said, some of our options (like ending the drug war) would cost us absolutely nothing and it would actually have a great abundance of economic benefits for us, as well.
Before anyone misconstrues what I’m saying, I’m not suggesting that ending the drug war will instantly solve the problems in Mexico or the problem we have concerning illegal immigration. However, I think the humanitarian approach is cheaper, more effective, and less morally troubling then our current approach. Building a larger fence and hiring more people to patrol the border is going to be way more expensive and far less effective. And harassing brown people for looking “suspicious” is an affront to the constitution and all of our liberties.
P.S. I also find it interesting how we can spend trillions of dollars on nation building and permanent bases in Iraq, yet the idea of doing something to actually help the people of Mexico is completely out of the question (even if improving their situation would actually help us by reducing illegal immigration). I guess the rule is we have to bomb people first before we can give them a helping hand.
They are treating symptoms, as that is the only thing they are in a position to treat.
[/thread]
I’m interested in how illegal immigrants from Canada fit into all of this.
Ah, the “implementing a shitty solution now is better than going back to the drawing board” strategy. It’s the American way; I’ll give you that.
It’s not like Arizona can alter immigration policies. They’re taking, probably, the biggest hit on the crappy immigration policies and weak enforcement of those policies by the federal government. You can’t blame them for actually doing something, even if it doesn’t “fix” the problem (which, again, they have no control over).
They’d have to wage a holy war on the US and start flying planes into our buildings before we do that. Drug killings just aren’t serious enough for us to care. It needs to be more large scale and direct to make the nation shook enough that we feel we need to act or we will be killed first… Killing random people at the border or drug deaths can be explained off and ignored as another drug killing, planes into a buidling cannot, its clearly war.
There is a factual inaccuracy somewhere in this post, but I can’t quite put my finger on it…
Hey if they did it for Health Care why not here? 
Go into Google and type “foreign aid mexico”.
See what comes up.
Go into google and type in “Cost of War Iraq.”
See what comes up and compare it.
The cost of the Iraq War is completely, utterly irrelevant to Arizona state law.
That’s great and all but there are bigger problems than just Mexico. A good chunk of people are coming from central American countries and south American countries. The problem is really how bad the conditions are there and the fact that crossing 3 countries is a viable life strategy in those conditions.
“why exactly should we make it easier? people are gonna come either way, the biggest hindrance to pain free legal immigration is in fact illegal immigration.”
We should make it easier because people are going to come any way. If we make getting legal immigration anything less than a huge pain in the ass we won’t have all of those secondary markets popping up that cause a great deal of problems. Drug enforcement has done all of jack and shit for the drug problem. All those laws arizona is passing are doing all of jack and shit about the situation.
“Americans are the only people made to feel guilty because they want to control their borders. If you are found crossing the border into Mexico illegally, the escort your ass back at gun point.”
This and add MS13 and cartel members who rob honduran and guatemalan immigrants traveling north; nevermind the women who are raped on the way up. Really, Mexico fucking suck ass for crossing and then you have to deal with the American border. Except for the Veracruz region in which, in some small towns, the townspeople will put food in bags and throw it to the immigrants on top of the trains; as well as water bottles, sodas so the caffeine keeps them awake as well as clothing. Big up to those towns, the churches in those small townships works really hard at helping the immigrants. Really, they are nothing short of amazing.
That’s great and all but there are bigger problems than just Mexico. A good chunk of people are coming from central American countries and south American countries. The problem is really how bad the conditions are there and the fact that crossing 3 countries is a viable life strategy in those conditions.
“why exactly should we make it easier? people are gonna come either way, the biggest hindrance to pain free legal immigration is in fact illegal immigration.”
We should make it easier because people are going to come any way. If we make getting legal immigration anything less than a huge pain in the ass we won’t have all of those secondary markets popping up that cause a great deal of problems. Drug enforcement has done all of jack and shit for the drug problem. All those laws arizona is passing are doing all of jack and shit about the situation.
“Americans are the only people made to feel guilty because they want to control their borders. If you are found crossing the border into Mexico illegally, the escort your ass back at gun point.”
This and add MS13 and cartel members who rob honduran and guatemalan immigrants traveling north; nevermind the women who are raped on the way up. Really, Mexico fucking suck ass for crossing and then you have to deal with the American border. Except for the Veracruz region in which, in some small towns, the townspeople will put food in bags and throw it to the immigrants on top of the trains; as well as water bottles, sodas so the caffeine keeps them awake as well as clothing. Big up to those towns, the churches in those small townships works really hard at helping the immigrants. Really, they are nothing short of amazing.
Not if we’re talking about foreign aid, which is the issue you took up with me.