the pledge of allegiance is 100% bullshit
I think you can argue that they’re paid under the table if they knowingly come here illegally and then find work. If the found work doesn’t end up ultimately benefiting them (as you mentioned they basically make minimum wage) has little to do with the actual decisions made in the process. I have a client whose staff of illegals man her land. This is a year round process and given her standing it must be done. If they weren’t available they would be forced to hire an actual landscaping company (who of course…).
I don’t want it to be implied that I need to at least care that they get some money because they’re here. They should be getting no money. I’d also like the people doing the hiring to be fined.
the idea that without illegal immigrants our economy would collapse is beyond ridiculous as is the idea that nobody suffers as a result of illegal immigration. we need to shut down and regulate the border one way or another, if arizona passing provocative legislation expedites the process then so be it. pretty sure the law is gonna hold up when challenged as well.
this xenephobic law just continues US legacy of scapegoating one group and distracting the public from the root of the problems. it ain’t different from the chinese exclusion act. this strategy works well cuz it feeds on people’s fears. but it doesn’t solve anything. that’s not the purpose of these tactics.
and i see no one commented on NAFTA.
Well at the end of the day governments are looking out for their best interests. Remember the “Bracero Program”? This issue has been with us since the fucking 1900s.
EDIT: wrong quote…
“this xenephobic law just continues US legacy of scapegoating one group and distracting the public from the root of the problems. it ain’t different from the chinese exclusion act. this strategy works well cuz it feeds on people’s fears. but it doesn’t solve anything. that’s not the purpose of these tactics.”
You caught us, we’re being xenophobic. All nations have forms of racism and exclusion in their past. We’re fucking apes, but we’re working on it. Totally irrelevant.
Also yes Governments are watching out for their own interests. Which by extension should also mean whats best for the future of their citizens. Again, not that I think Governments are infallible or that ours is even that great. But these critiques do not address the problems people have with illegal immigration. Earlier some guy asked what is the problem with illegals being here. I think it was covered. Why do you think they should stay (barring our countries distaste for racial profiling)?
All I heard was because its hard to get here, and their homeland sucks – or to be more respective to heritage – sucks at feeding its citizens.
Since this law mirrors the law on the books that the Feds are supposed to be enforcing, this really highlights how inept the Feds are at doing one of the few things they actually have a constitutional power to do.
Arizona is in effect saying, “Since you won’t do it we will!”
I live in So Cal and have tons of friends from legal immigrant families, which include my current roommate, and my half brother. No one who I have asked from these families has said this is racial profiling. Many of them say the law should made so it’s even tougher for people to slip between the cracks.
As for the illegal doing jobs that Americans won’t do, try asking anyone in the construction industry if they have been underbid by an illegal immigrant.
The legal immigrant is hit especially hard in this industry.
Some of those same friends work as Border Patrol where they see drug and human smuggling nearly everyday. As with AZ we have been dealing with kidnappings of people on the US side, who have been taken back to Mexico for ransom.
This is about fighting crime, as much as it is an immigration bill.
things to know: 1) the major cause of illegal immigration is shitty countries. If the economies of Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras and the rest weren’t train wrecks, people wouldn’t risk their lives to come to the U.S. and maybe get a job.
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Most illegal immigrants pay taxes, such as the sales tax and others, yet do not use any of the services. They don’t use the services mostly out of fear of being deported.
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The real problem is not illegal immigration. The law is not going to stop the person who crossed and killed the farmer. It is only going to stop the people who come over to work shitty jobs and the send the money back home (this is called remitances). Even then it will lead to mostly racial profiling as police officers in Arizona are not going to look for asians, indians, east europeans or anybody else who might possibily be illegal, it will most likely than not the Mexican/ Mexican American population who gets the full front assault on the law.
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If the black women thread gets shutdown for stupid reasons, then this one needs to go because 99% of SRK GD is dumb ass all living hell and probably not read well enough on many of the problems that this law creates or the population it ends up affecting. So…really, all Arizona wants to do is create as much structural violence as possible against one particular group. Fuck’em.
“Reasonable Suspicion” is the definition of probable cause pal - or it’s a violation of your civil rights (federal overrides state).
It means cameras catching it on tape, lawsuits, fired cops, tons of national attention, etc. This is America. I have no idea how this law is going to play out and neither does anyone else.
so bcuz central america has shitty economies the US can’t have border control and laws against immigration? give me a break. every other country has laws designed to curtail and hinder illegal immigration, yet in america it’s racist and xenophobic? gtfo with that shit.
hehehe, i love living in Canada. Mexicans seldom make it past TWO borders
If you’re not a legal citizen, how do u have civil rights?
ask the inuit in nunavut about civil rights.
You don’t fool and that’s what this law was created for… to catch illegals! Some of you people don’t even know what this law is about.
Oh and for you dumb motherfuckers that don’t think illegal aliens affect America - among other things they kill 12 Americans daily (car accidents, homicide, etc.).
I was expecting something to do with racial profiling but the topic creator lied and it’s just a bunch of people being salty that Arizona is finally doing something about all these criminals.
That’s simply not true, and you know it. It’s well known and well documented that even outside the “sanctuary cities”, there are loads of illegal immigrants in subsidized housing and in schools. I sincerely doubt that you didn’t know this.
The craziest thing about this that I have been hearing is that people have to have their birth certificate on them to prove that they are not Illegal. That shit is crazy because NO ONE carries their fucking birth certificate on them. I live in AZ and this shit is ridiculous. I agree that something does need to be done about immigration to basically legalize racial profiling is not the way. Things are going to get so much worse out here.
1st: Firearms are allowed into bars and clubs
2nd: People are now allowed to carry firearms WITHOUT a CCW.
3rd: Immgration reform passed.
Next: Things become violent and AZ becomes the Wild West… AGAIN!!
For sure something needs to be done, because current system is a joke. And no I don’t think illegal immigrants are evil.
Illegals get arrested for whatever reason, bailout and do it all over again. Local authorities for the most part have no way to hold them and deport them. I don’t know if they cause more good then harm because their isn’t anyway to quantify it. It’s not just corporations that need to be prosecuted, it is every business even small ones. I live in NorCal and we got a ton of illegals here. It causes big problems with the younger ones getting involved in gangs, we had 30 murders last year, 28 were gang related. Mexicans born here vs. Mexicans not born here.
That is a major problem, the anchor babies.
that’s a rumor. all you need is a valid driver’s license or geen card.
It’s hard for me to discuss in this thread due to emotional reasonings, but I will try to make a point from a diff direction.
Everyone here is concerned about who to blame, crime, what is legal or illegal, taxes, benefits, etc… But the simple fact remains that this law, even though in the disguise that it will curve illegal immigrants and somehow save the economy it’s basically doing too things that shouldn’t be happening.
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Violation of our 4th amendments rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution Why should a cop have the authority to say “hmmm he doesn’t look like a legal resident, let me ask for papers”. Hopefully you can see that in the bill that is what it states! You don’t have to be pulled over or caught doing something out of the ordinary. You just have to fit some sort of profile and the question is… What constitutes as that profile that will ensure that racial profiling was not the cause? Considering that over 30% of the Arizona population is Latino it will be very interesting situation.
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Why are everyday cops concentrating on federal issues? The police deal with everyday situations like robberies, car theft, murders, etc… They are not INS or Federal employees that are capable of pursuing this new law. So why waste time and money training cops, making unnecessary arrests, wasting time, etc… one something that in reality in the whole grand scheme of things MIGHT not be an issue? Stopping an Illegal Mexican walking to a store asking him his papers and going through the process of immigration and what not is a good way to spend tax money? Or should the cop concentrate on the illegals that are actually causing harm to the community?
Personal Thoughts
I’m posting this because of my emotional side to things. I’m not illegal but my wifes family is and this obviously affects us badly.
It saddens me to hear people bitching about medical benefits and schooling. Since when helping someone in need a crime. Aren’t illegals humans first? How can we gladly send millions upon millions of dollars to other countries for relief efforts but cry when we spend some money at our own homes?
Why is giving an education to an illegal a problem? Don’t you want that person to become more involved with the community? Figure out a way to contribute and be part of society?
By taking these resources away what do you think they have left? Go home?
How are illegal alien families going to react when there is home abuse? They can’t call the police for help.
Leaving an illegal immigrant to die because you refuse to spend some money to help a human being due to medical expenses.
Not allowing an illegal immigrant to gain knowledge that allows him to exceed at life, thus leaving him just doing criminal acts to move on, is this what you see as a good thing?
I will leave this here, hopefully some of you will see something in a different light. But in reality unless you have lived around them and seen the real deal. Then you are just basing your ideas on media or on what is popular.