No
no one responded based on elitism
it was perpetuated by the fact that he was elitist in the “i have a life excuse” which i find utterly ridiculous.
there is no game in the fighting genre that requires insane execution unless its for specific stuff in which.
you wanna do it… you gotta put in the work
The post you quoted shows a lack of understanding by the poster of why links even exist as well as a lack of knowledge of the past, as far as why a game like SF4 would choose to require links for certain moves to come out instead of letting you chain lights into them if you wish. It also glosses over the effects of something as huge as giving parries “a much larger input window”.
There is a lot wrong with that post, it’s all suggestion without enough knowledge of the system to know what those suggested changes will do and not enough knowledge of the past to know that thing you are suggesting has already been proven to be a bad idea; and the fact that you said you love it means you most likely didn’t notice those issues either.
Recap
Alexbib: 2+2 = 7
You: I love this post - I’m very sorry for the ire you’ve had directed against you as a result. I applaud your position and your grace under assault.
Are fighting games too hard to play for the average casual player? sounds like an excuse.
I guess it has to do with a mindset. Someone who plays an hour once a week, learning the game, getting a feel for the game. vs someone who plays once a week, just smashing buttons, and does not understand whats going on. and just wants to win.
FADC is “hard” at first. A new player may not even know it exist in the game yet. With breaking it down, and Sticking with it, its bound to come full circle.
Because bikes were the only transportation option for kids. If there was another form of transport available to kids that offered the same mobility for less effort, only the hardcore bike lovers would continue to use bikes. Also, I think someone else already mentioned it previously but these are games. The very idea that you would need to work to play a game (not become the world champion, but just play it at a basic level) is asinine to some people.
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Again, I can’t speak for all casuals, but the ones I know who have tried fighting games and quit it did not have a problem with inability to win. They fully expected to lose constantly. The main complaint was inability to play, where playing is defined as simply being able to understand the game’s rules, come up with a reasonable understanding of the gamestate, decide what they want their character to do, and manipulate the controller in such a way that what they want the character to do actually has a reasonable chance of happening.
Probably worth repeating; in this context ‘too hard’ means ‘hard enough that they don’t stick with it’ not ‘so hard that they can’t play at all.’
I hate fighting people who claim they’re good because they’ve beaten all of their friends and people at tournaments, but only mash buttons. No juggles, no combos, just throws and button mashing, and when they nearly have me, they tell me to step up my game. 
I am getting the distinct feeling that everyone else has much more skillful casual gamer friends than I do. Has no one else ever spent two hours trying to teach someone how to SRK (and then an additional hour teaching how to do it to the other side)? No one has iphone warrior friends who can’t even hold the controller properly? -_-
I think I mentioned it in the first page or two of this thread but if it takes that long to teach someone a shoryuken, especially if its happened multiple times, then I’m 99% sure that the problem is the way you are teaching.
Btw, I worked in an arcade for years, I’ve seen scrubbiness on levels that you can’t even comprehend.
Maybe, though I’m not sure what more I could be doing to help them. It’s not the complexity of the action tripping them up, just physically making the motions. I demonstrate how to do it, turn on input display, explain what they’re doing wrong, but their hands just aren’t doing it. Even when they can detect exactly what they’re doing wrong, and they can do it right in slow-motion, once they try to do it normal speed everything falls apart. I’m not sure what else there is to teach, TBH.
Edit: I don’t really equate scrubbiness with casual play. It’s more of an attitude thing that has more to do with made-up rules.
Or maybe it’s exactly what makes them fun? If the game was “press the win button” I don’t think people would be enjoying it, even though it’s no work at all! (And that should be the most fun game ever by your logic.)
But instead you have complex games which do require knowledge and experience to excel at.
As for doing basic motions, that’s what they are- Basic motions. If millions of people can learn how to do them, so can anyone. If anyone has trouble it’s purely out of lack of interest in the genre.
Excel at and play are two different things.
If playing a game is hard you have a bad game.
And ukyo, I have been in the same boat before TONS of times. People I’ve interacted with absolutely DESPISE the idea that to block is to press the back button, it just pisses them off and frustrates them.
You should never do the ‘and this totally over the top and absurd example would be the best by your logic’
it only took me 5 minutes to teach my nephew and his friends who were between 8 & 9 years old by that time, to me it sounds that your friends have a really low level of Fine motor skills
The only people who i know that complaint about it are MK players, the rest feel that is actually very natural
I think what was said in the beginning of this thread is correct…simply to not get destroyed online (which what most casual players will play) you have to work. Video games are commonly thought of as a leisure activity, more so nowadays than ever. How many people today would spend more than an hour with a game like Super Ghouls and Ghosts or Battle toads? However even with those games…the controls and what you can do with the character are quite basic and easy the difficulty is in the levels and enemies themselves. However even the most basic commands in a fighting game like timing a deep jump kick or a meaty sweep, or the DP motion…won’t come instantly for someone who has never played a fighting game before. Therein lies the biggest hurdle, with most other genres of games you get some instant gratification…in fighting games usually no.
Exactly! Casual gamers, by definition, have less interest in fighting games. Therefore difficulties that a more hardcore player would ignore are much bigger issues in their eyes.
LOL, I would normally agree but some of those same people are playing starcraft with 200+ actions per minute.
That only means that they have a different type of fine motor skills, but the ones required to do a simple motion as 236 are still undeveloped
No they arent too hard, it just takes a fighting knowledge to be amazing at it, besides there are plenty of people online (XBL/PSN) who have very little knowledge of what they are doing, I play Umvc3, and because Im a 9th lord, I rarely play anyone above my rank, which means I am usually playing decent players or the players who drop combos CONSTANTLY or allow me to do mix ups, or maybe Ill even just build meter off of TAC’s without the other guy trying to counter it. In conclusion, Its not hard to play them with a basic knowledge, if you wanna be great at it, you gotta put in the time
Honestly its most likely pure lack of motivation, they dont’m really care and are going through the paces, it sounds like.
Holy Crap “NE” Fucking “C”
I tried to make a thread about it a month or two ago in FGD, I think its actually a big issue with growth in the community that alot of people may want to teach other people but don’t know how to do it effectively, unfortunately the thread got moved to the Newbie forum for some reason, where it promptly died.
It probably easier for me because I did it almost every day for so long and I could test out a bunch of different theories and approaches and see what worked best.
Anyways, back to Hotel nonsense :tup:
Its not that fighting games are hard, not only are they really simple, its simple to see how and why the game works, its easy to develop strategies, and its simple to find most of the rules.
The issue is time investment. Casuals, a lot of them, don’t have time to invest to learn all of the rules, people want to do other shit to. Its not fun sitting in training mode and pushing buttons trying to make things work, especially execution. People like to do other things, and or have important things to do, if you are allowed 3 hours of fun, do you really think the average player is going to waste his time in training mode trying to do a combo, of which are necessary in Capcom games, or learning how to time things, or learning how to set and memorize several dozen set ups or escapes?
The answer is emphatic no, fuck that noise because its not fun, its why CoD and Halo are so popular, because its as simple as 1-2-3. Its simple to figure out which firearms are best for each map, its easy to execute what you want, and best of all, you can learn all of this on the go by simply jumping and playing with others. You can’t do that with the majority of fighting games, and if we could, the lot of you would be bitching about how EZ mode that shit is, how scrub friendly it is, and how the gaming companies have abandoned the “fans” for money and how fucking butt hurt the folks here get. Not only that, there is the issue of what is and isn’t fair the casual player contemplated every time he gets raped.
And no, tutorials are not going to make game easier or more accessible because the biggest issue, time investment, is still to big. Unless you have a community that is readily accessible, not 30 min away, willing and able to play on your schedule, and has several players of different skill with a good variety of characters then the issue is mitigated. But that isn’t the case for casuals, and why CoD is much more popular, and will continue to be more popular than fighting games.