Main reason why there is a lot now compared to then is Capcom you me to write out all the releases from them when the so called fg “resurrection” accord?
Hell there is a lot of games I left off that list since I didn’t include ports/emulation.
I played the fuck out of VF 4 EVO, dunno what niggas are talking about.
Well, Lesser, I think part of it also is habit. For years, I played almost exclusively single player games save for Melee, Tekken, and Soul Caliber 2. I would play the single player games for about a month or so, beat it, then move on (save for both Metroid Primes). It’s quite possible that a lot of people are like this. Let’s not forget that people can be very trendy so a fighting game can be yesterday’s news in a few weeks time for most.
As a player that actually played and grew up in that era, ive always thought this. New tech is cool but for me kinda ruined games… Ill give a really basic example:
In ol school streetfighter back in the days just after the games had come out all the way into st… It was a given that ALL jumpins were deep… If you didnt do a deep jumpin, you got thrown everytime when you landed… Bar none the defender had priority on throws.
Which subsequently meant that most/all jumpns were aimed deep… Deep jumpjns are much easier to AA than early outstretched ones… As we all know, this continues to this day. So basically one didnt have to overly concentrate on AAing jumpins, and jumpjns arent that strong unless there is a read… You HAVE to have a fireball read or something like that to jumpin against even the lowliest scrub… AA was free and forced a ground game.
Well 3 years into my sf career st came out, when this came out i was well versed in the strategy i just outlined. I had pretty damn good defense and fundamentals. In comes a player that jumps in early… Natural reaction from me of course is backthrow which ive never seen lose in that situation. I try to backthrow… I get srk’d… Perplexed, this player does the same shit to me again and again. I eventually stop trying to back throw and just start getting thrown… Oooooh mindgames.
That was my introduction to st. A NOOB with little fundamental skills (i was way better than him save for that 1 tactic) was able to break established rules and beat me.
Ok fine but it still pissed me off that i wasnt getting outsmarted, read and destroyed… I was getting new technologied which resulted in an easy read.
And the motherfucker walked around like he was the shit… Didnt bother with guile cause he couldnt use his crutch with guile and non invincible move characters…
Lol point being that so e folks just want the games that they are currently playing to stay the same… If shit is changed we want it to be on a new version…that we can ignore should we choose to.
New tech isnt bad… But it CAN give undeserved wins. Which is the most frustrating thing about it imho.
You’re wrong. Mega Man does tell you. That is the whole point of that video. It deliberately puts you in a situation where you must discover that there is the concept of weak spots. Fighting games, in general, do not offer an analog.
We have mechanics like:
-Link combos
-Chain combos
-Command priorities
-Cancels
-Wake ups
-Counters (while games will often display that something has been countered, it doesn’t make clear what that actually means)
-Overhead attacks
-Asymmetric health meters
-Hit stun
-Cross ups
While there are exceptions, typically nothing of this sort is explained to the player. The player is left to his own devices to solve the riddle of the rules.
An anecdote: I have a buddy who likes Street Fighter. We’ve played a bit. He didn’t know what a link was. He didn’t understand what it meant to block low vs high. He didn’t understand the concept of hit stun. He didn’t know it was possible to cancel moves in to other moves. He didn’t understand what a wake-up attack was. Nothing intrinsic to the game told him he could do these things. Consequently, he won’t play online because he gets frustrated. He has no idea how other people are doing what they do and the game offers him no means of learning. All he can do is ask someone or go read a Website (which again, that video argues against requiring the player to do)
If a player knows everything the rules allow one to do, then it’s different story. When someone beats you with clever tactics or sound strategies, you feel like you lost fair and square. You can clearly see why you lost instead of wondering what just happened. You have a vector to follow to get better. You can improve your execution, tactics, and strategies. However, if you don’t even know what’s possible to do, then you feel like your opponent simply has information you don’t have. You feel cheated.
This, is the biggest hurdle for the “average casual player.” Moreover, as fighting game players get better, the games add more complexity. To those who haven’t been playing for 15 years, the fighting games can seem incredibly daunting to pick up and play. You need an undergraduate degree just to get started.
Nope, I think the “problem” is either that I’m thinking your ideas through further than you guys are or that I’ve played more fighting games over the years…
When Xes said overheads should go downward, Three games flashed red in my mind immediately, Tekken, Soul Calibur and Guilty Gear.
I have to hope you aren’t counting 3D game mids when you say that because coming to that conclusion involves a level of stupidity I’d like to think no one in this thread is capable of. Mids come in the upward kind like lauchers and hop kicks, the straight kind like gut punches and straight kicks, and the downward kind like heel kicks and downward punches. The idea that attacks that you can’t block low go downward ruins 3D games immediately.
The first time you play Guilty Gear coming from SF and see an overhead come out of the ground your head might explode, but guess what, the second time it happens your brain goes, hey its that overhead that comes out of the ground again; by taking things like that out of games you do lose something important: originality and variety.
Its not that hard of a concept, blocked low…got hit…don’t block that low next time. A two year old is capable of processing the same information when they touch something very hot even though they can barely grasp language; That’s hot…don’t touch. I refuse to believe it is a necessity to design a game with someone fundamental less intelligent than a 2 year old in mind.
Ah, yes. You’re right. The problem is clearly either that you’re more thoughtful or you’ve played more games.
maybe, but it can get annoying to people who started playing fighters between 01-08 to have that whole time period written off as a dark age, especially people who are primarily fans of non Capcom fighters
It’s really looking like that.
All the suggestions that you, Lithuan, and Xes are asking for have either already been implemented, or cannot be implemented, yet, you keep asking for their implantation.
Is hard for me to believe that a little kid that started playing fighting games when he was 8 is able to grasp a lot of concepts very quickly despite to being arcane shit for some grown men, that in theory should have developed their brain more by now
Links usually are something emergent, outside sf4, usually those are found by accident, not every link is planed, also, the concept of links is something natural actually, you hit someone and put him enough time on stun for you to land another attack
All the games that have them tell you outright the “magic secuence” as some call them, also, you cant be serious, that shit is probably the most easy shit to figure out even if the game doesn’t outright tell you from the start.
It can be explained sure, but usually is something that you can figure in less than an hour of play
The games that feature them tell you that you can do them usually
IS pretty much evident from the very begining
Some games do this better than others, specially those who give you different propierties when you land a counter hit, also, is pretty obvious when you hear a fucking counter while both of you hit each other/ you hit him on one of his ttacks
It can’t be more clear than that you took damage for defending low, seriously
Is no different than other games where some enemies need more hits to die than others, if is not a problem on them, dunno why is a problem here
The fact that some attacks put you in more stun than others is the cue that you need
I give you that some crossups are only possible to how the hitboxes work.
The majority of your complains are simply absurd/stupid, the game give more than enough cues about what are they by playing them
Scrubtastic
Children may process information differently than adults.
Don’t forget some enemies are weak to certain attacks you get from other bosses which you figure out on your own or a guide.
In regards to basics vs high level, the comparisons are adequate. I don’t expect to beat or challenge someone who studied chess strats or has been playing more frequently than me who knows how the pieces move and one or two tricks to get a quick checkmate.
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to do with the soccer doesn’t have super moves thing.
“Everyone” doesn’t understand the rules of the game before someone begins to bend them or starts combining what they’re allowed to do in different ways.
So it’s a problem you went out your way to be more knowledgeable, which the game rewarded, and now need to find others equal or more knowledgable than yourself to be challenged?
You got to move the knight on the right side to prevent the 3 move checkmate.
His soccer example is funny because there is definitively “obscure” stuff as some say here that can be only known after years of playing and training, the way that the ball behaves depending on how you kick it, and the position of your feet, body, etc.
The kind of soccer that a professional plays is not the same as a novice, specially because there is a lot of stuff that can be only learned by playing, training, etc
People still do that shcolar’s mate thing?
I thought Blackburne was the new hotness?
Okay fellas, it looks like some of you are taking this discussion very personally and pleasant conversation is no longer possible, so I’m going to take this opportunity to bow out.
This is personal?
Seems surprisingly civil compared to how these topic normally go.
It’s like the “intelligent man’s” ragequit.
Like, has anyone called anyone a name here?
He’s been proven wrong and sees no way to bullshit his way out like he does in every other thread.
it’s not a problem, really. I like 3s a lot after all lol.
but I think in all these theory fighter topics the idea being presented by one side is that it would be pretty cool to have a fighting game that approached being mostly about the mindgames and less about the execution hurdles or the complex system hurdles that necessarily put a higher up front learning curve. ideally you’d pick up a game and the learning curve leans toward the end. easy to grasp, easy to perform what you want to do, difficult to always know what to do. the other guy beats you by making better decisions in a system you’re both fluent in.
modern games the learning curve is quite steep at first and then gets easier as you go along. maybe not all games, but a good chunk. you have to make an initial investment of learning combos in training mode, or going to a wiki and learning how the mechanics work before you can even think about how you might use them.