Thats alot of stuff. Nerfed normals, but everyone got nerfed normals so it balances. AA isn’t to bad an issue if you space your game right. not always easy but what are we all hoping for a vanilla Gat? Which I got to play today all day at the arcade. He makes the cast feel free…lol.
All I want is cr.hp to be useful for something other than chun, 12 frame startup on the move is the devil, but that’s me.
Bison got two things. ex PC crossup, which is a gimmick, and U2, which was ok while the surprise effect lasted. His AA options still are the worst of the cast imo.
Vanilla Sagat had superior zoning, pressure, AA, damage, life, and insane comeback potential.
SSF4 Bison has superior pressure, average life, inferior damage and AA, no zoning nor comeback potential.
I’m happy with this, but I’m not a tournament player…
But crossup Psycho Crusher gimmicks work; even top players get caught with it. Having gimmicks doesn’t downplay the effectiveness of these tools, they’re all a part of the character. You can say fireballs are a gimmick too, they’re just chucking stuff at you to make you jump into an anti-air move.
Hmm, I had a short, well, only a three to four hour Endless Lobby session with some friends using just Bison and trying various things out of the norm.
I might get stoned for posting this but… I think c.HP should be untouched and remain at it’s current start up speed. There are sometimes certain jump ins that s.HK may be too quick where c.HP would succeed for it’s proper timing. But other than that, s.HK is fair and should be used for AA 95% of the time over c.HP, there’s just a few odd occurrences, in a timed fashion, where c.HP would triumph as the premiere choice to punish.
Also, you can punish some crouch tech OS with c.HP. When you’re out of range and people try to crouch tech OS, they stick a limb out I think, you can do like a c.LP chain spam about 2-3 times (depending on how close you are) and just throw in c.HP afterward while they’re mashing c.LP+LK, the Bison c.HP should hit majority of the rosters c.LP/c.LK recovery frames since Bison’s c.LP puts him at +2f on block and c.HP is 12f start up, so there’s a 10f gap. Most people’s quickest crouch normals are a total of about 11-14 frames. I’m sure something can be worked out, you just have to train your opponent into thinking you’re going into the throw so they mash the crouch tech OS then you punish it. It’s not something you can repeat and get absolutely done.
It’s a weird thing but c.HP is kinda useful for a little bit more outside of trying to AA with it. I know most people are using c.HP to AA shit on other characters but Bison also has no real sweep like the rest of the cast too and has a long slow slide compared to them. The slide we have can go into a lot of different baiting scenarios for Bison while everyone elses sweeps are footsie based. I’m just trying to think outside of the box and not really put myself into a mentality that Bison should be played more like X character or Y character and see what and why the Capcom JPN dev’s chose to make these things work the way they do for Bison.
Although I do share and echo at least some of the sentiments here… DAT SKULLDIVER HITBOX… if it can be larger and actually dive Bison down faster to hit people, I think you can just link Ultra 1 into it pretty easily while holding charge too. Just… just wishful thinking man.
No for real Tony I’m on that exact same level. I guess I wish he had one more way to combo into ultra. Or maybe make it easier after Skulldiver. I’m fine without it, but c.hp is better used as OS than AA. I’m not even gonna say I’m on the level of using OS alot, but for sure its my next goal with SSF4. But overall i feel like if your are solid on your matchups, then Bison is top teir. He has an answer for just about every situation. If he had ultimate defense, i feel like he would be on the level of Vanilla Gat. And after playing Vanilla in the Arcade today, and playing alot of both characters, Gat is a joke in that game. I land a DP maybe two and DP FADC ultra and win, it should be a struggle for every character to win. Bison stuggles so much less than he used to and I’m so glad for this. His changes are subtle but enough to make him very effective against pretty much the entire cast if you are patient and know his matchups solid. At this point I’m more hoping they don’t change anything. Because if they do it will prob be a nerf rather than something to help us because he has so few matchups that are against him, while the rest of the cast suffers greatly from their bad matchups. I would love to see a fast c.hp, or a better skulldive. Mostly I just want to keep him as is, as he is more than I had hoped for in the first place.
Wait I have more, on top of all this I have noted here. He has decent defense, not really good, but compared to alot of the cast he has alot of ways out of pressure to keep your opponent guessing. His pokes are fucking awesome! Don’t even try to argue that. He has very easy ways in as well (SK, well spaced PC, empty DP that acts almost like a super jump). A couple of ways to land Ultra(maybe one more would be nice, but if not oh well). And on top of all that very few one frame links, that most of the rest of the cast has to deal with for a simple bnb combo.
Yeah I was surprised when Arturo said that high level players still get hit by crossup PC. I guess we have to remember not everybody has a dp.
Bison really doesn’t need much if anything. c HP being slightly faster (maybe 1 or 2 frames less startup, nothing drastic) would be nice. Otherwise I’m perfectly content with what they’ve done. As it stands his only real option against a Ryu doing J RH is the c HP which either trades or beats it (which is good enough for me). Crossup PC is a great addition and works fine, it also has plenty of setups and even an easy mode reset.
One thing I wouldn’t mind seeing is completely changing his J MP, that thing is utterly useless.
I expect slight nerfs if anything, though.
You want to change neutral jump MP or arc jump MP (Hell attack)?
Just think bison in SSF4 is pretty balance out, he don’t need much.
if we can alter the nature of Head Stomp, game will be different.
just keep it silent, not those “uh” sound when he make jump, it will confuse HELL out the people in mid-close range since he jump so flowty anyway.
PC just perfect now, which I don’t mind if it can go faster, I do PC now when I get a knock down and hell those auto correct SRK still give me trouble.
can’t get anything free from ryu, even a gdm chip damage.
and best? lf they change the falling distance after get hit by Scissor Kick, like, in s.MK range and add in air ability, so 2 hit SK and you will be in low air like EX tasu will do in corner and we can cancel into PC…
ok too much, this well make bison the shin bison like in EX3.
cMK could use a fix as well. That shit lost priority and that pisses me off. 12 frame cHP is a fucking joke. I could see it if it had a great hitbox, or damage, or combo ability, but no…it’s just a shitty move, period. njMP still needs to do something besides NOTHING
I hate this thread… capcom is gonna shove it up our asses.
Neutral jump, hell attack is fine.
I for one hope they don’t change anything but rumours abound about PP now being a charge and having loads more recovery, basically eliminating it’s effectiveness for punishment.
Is that confirmed yet or is it still just a rumour?
I’d really like a non-charge method to build meter but that probably won’t happen.
Still hoping for some tweaks to hit boxes. Still 50/50 on charge motion Psycho Punisher. Dedicated players will adapt if it is going to become charge motion.
“Dedicated” players are likely to just up and abandon U2 and go back to U1 and be zoned to death like we were in vanilla.
I’ll go back to U1 I know that much
I’m confident in the guile match up as it is and U2 doesnt work in that match up.
Nah, U2 still has setups. Just means you gotta be on that phaggy time and play stalk for fireballs and stuff.
At this point, I think I’ve made my wish list pretty vocal and they’re small little things. I don’t think they’re going to change Bison a whole lot. At least not to the point where he’ll get an new move or anything.
I’ll definitely abandon it if it’s a charge motion I reckon. I play a little Chun from time to time and the amount of times I’ve hit Hosenka through fireballs in recent months can be counted on one finger. If half-decent players see you charging then they just stop chucking fireballs.
We’re never gonna get a new move, it’s gonna be a frame here and a frame there etc. I suppose if you stuck a gun to my head I’d like the hitbox on St RH to extend upwards a bit to make it a more reliable AA but leave everything else just as it is.
if they change u2 to charge motion + add start up or recovery, they might as well buff the damage to 80%-1 hit KO to compensate. Still would be worthless though, amirite?
bison is fine, they just need to decrease the input latency on the up down charge.