One positive side to it, hopefully with this pushback you get pushed a bit farther out than normal, and simply walking back say against gief, would make you out of the tip of the range of his LP SPD, and allow you to punish and mindfuck him from such a distance. But funny ‘harder to punish’. Didn’ know we were getting punished at 0 frames.
You should probably know that they are increasing LP SPD range.
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Back to square one. 
wow, capcom beat bison with the nerf stick, then shoved it up his ass when they were done. And THIS is why I haven’t bothered playing Bison in ages. At least my Hawk got buffed like a crazy mother fucker (ex Dive from anywhere, bitches!!)
NO, it is NOT ok. I dont use it as anti air anyway. Fact of the matter is nearly everytime you hit it it will be only 80 dmg which is fucking ass. You would be retarded to throw it out at 110 damage range which is at the knee or closer.
I hit rh 4-5 times per round which should be 400-500 damage. Now it is 320-400…THAT IS A HUGE NERF. Bison does shit damage as is and now he is even worst.
What it shows is Capcom really doesn’t look at the matchups because clearly these changes make the Guile match even worse. All they do is add characters. I am tired of them nerfing bison’s rh. Sure it’s 6 frames but nerfing to 100 dmg was enough (it wasn’t waranted either).
I truly believe Capcom listens to the scrub complains in eventhubs comments section and change the game based on that lol, it doesn’t make any sense, Bison’s SK trap was not broken, he does crap damage and that was one of the few good ways he could do some damage and pressure opponents into making mistakes, with the extra pushback and increased hurtbox on his cr. lk his SK trap is fucked if not even gone.
Guess we’ll have to wait and see how he’ll turn out in AE…
Bison is my alt and I hate fighting him as my main (Akuma), yet I still think this nerf was totally unnecessary.
Wow, there is a lot of rage in this topic…
It’s not that serious guys. Yes, he got nerfed a bit. It just means you’ll have to change up your game to compensate. Even with the changes, I doubt he’ll suck. Plus, a lot of other characters are also getting weakened as well (honda, balrog, guile, etc), so it might not matter too much in the aggregate.
Let’s reserve judgement until we, you know, actually play the game.
Wise words.
to be completely honest, the Ultra change pisses me off, but I don’t really use/land the ultra that much anyways. The sHK nerf is LAME as shit, but I can honestly see why it needed to get fixed. Nerfing his SK loop is on par with fucking over Blanka balls…just seems like it was done so scrubs can be happier.
My problem is they didn’t give him ANY boosts at all. They didn’t fix his cMK, they didn’t fix his DR or HS, they didn’t give him ANYTHING. Hell, even Honda didn’t get nerf’d this bad, and he actually needed it.
Breaking down the changes as they stand now, granted since they don’t list all the changes in the blog we will still have to actually play the thing to figure out exactly what they did. But if this was actually the only things that happened:
Ok, the st.hk nerf just hurts if they leave the hitbox as it is. It trades and badly most of the time anyways. Whats worse is the part of the hitbox that actually does decent damage almost never is the part that hits anyways. The cr.lk nerf I am not sure on since it just sounds like a minor tweak.
Hmm depends how far back really.
I am going to put this simple, if I actually get a full super meter you are not pressuring me at all. A change that sounds nice on paper but practically changes nothing in reality.
Though there is some debate this one is really stupid if they didn’t reduce the incredibly slow startup time as well. Part of the reason U2 was good in some fights is because of the fact it didn’t rely on charge and could come out at anytime, meaning you couldn’t just get a life lead and wait for Bison to move forward to continue fireballing one of the reasons his U1 is kind of bad, beyond the fact his U1 has a fairly slow startup as well, though yes not as slow as U2. Aka it was the threat of the ultra more than actually landing it, now most of that threat is gone as it is easy to tell when Bison has charge. No the damage boost does not make up for it.
WAAAAAAAH WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
go play a different character if you don’t like it.
?? I was explaining how RH is a serious nerf to another poster and you post this childish non-argument? So, can you explain how this change is good for bison? Or do you have some else childish to say?
it is a serious nerf to the poke, but imho, i usually use st.mk as my primary poke and not st.hk. i mainly use st.hk if i feel the enemy is going to jump, and i use it, and for me i’m just glad the hitbox and speed of the move hasn’t changed. in matches like abel or gief tho i definitely used st.hk more as a poke because they are much larger. hard to say how the gief matchup will change with ex gh not knocking down but lp spd being better, but i have a feeling it will change for the worse, as giefs will find ways to get their knockdowns or adapt.
i think the close st.hk doing more damage means that frame traps involving a close standing HK counterhit ->another st.hk are slightly stronger now… but yea… still… it’s a nerf in general
Even though I don’t use U2 often in fights, it’s still my staple ultra because you don’t have to charge, meaning you can play a more aggressive game up close and punish players who FB you too close or whiff an attack. Now that advantage is gone I am not sure if either of the two ultras is worth using at this point. This and other nerfs (especially c.lk) piss me to no end. My main in vanilla was Sagat and now Bison gets the giant nerf bat as well. Damn this &%^#.
every1 needs to chill out -_-
Most of us that have mained bison since 2008 are way passed the rage
Just wait until u play AE before u bring out the pitchforks and torches
Excuse my anger please… Screw these nerfs… Bison has been nerfed enough. Now they wanna nerf the ENTIRE CORE of his offensive game because people that cant block whine and complain about his moves being so good when they aren’t. Yet Capcom caters to them all because they’re the majority and the hardcore players like us are the minority. The REALLY dumb part is that they buff the best characters like Akuma and make his mp srk like Ken’s (the best AA srk in the game) and completely ignore C.Viper’s ridiculous burn kicks. And in super they actually nerf Gen… Bison gets the nerf stick why? Because he’s winning SOOOOOOO many tournaments right(sarcasm)? Just think about it; these are the guys that let vanilla Sagat out of the cage in SF4. The reason no one can understand the logic behind Capcom’s game balancing simple… THERE IS NO LOGIC!!! As always I’ll deal with the changes and stick with Bison. (venting concluded) Pizza anyone :D.
The nerfs don’t bother me as much as the fact that they completely screwed up Bison’s "identity."
He went from Touch of Death character to a “pressure/footsies” character to now a… defensive runaway character with bad defensive options?
Right now, my biggest concern is the spacing it pushes you back after the initial cr. short xx lk sk.
Either it’s going to be in 3rd loop position (where cr. strong/cr. forward xx lk sk hits at max range) or out of loop range.
If it’s the cr. strong/cr. forward range, this can be easily predicted and stuffed since cr. strong is a 7 frame move.
If you break the scissor kick loop bison loses his pressure game. If the LK SK pushes you out of loop range the only options bison has to continue the pressure is st. forward > LK SK, which is easily predictable after a few cycles. This would be a major nerf to his rushdown playstyle. He was a great character because he can be played multiple ways. Defensive, offensive, reactive, risky, etc. What these do is take away from his offensive play-style which gets you in the opponents face. To think about it differently, this kind of change is like having Rufus’s dive kick pressure push himself back if they’re blocked. They then become easy to read/react and takes away from the mindgames.
Bison will still be a good character, but you’re gonna have to play him less aggressively.
Side-note: This seems like a vanilla throwback. They want the pace of SF4 dictator(having to play a bit slower and smart reads) but the feel of SF2T dictator’s ability to control the screen. That’s my guess.
The Ultra II is pretty useless though lol. There is no tactical advantage to Ultra II now, it can punish a fireball if the opponent is herp de derp. In high level play this will be avoided EASILY seeing that bison can’t footsie and charge at the same time.
There is logic to the changes of AE.
Logic: Give causal players rimjobs = more market share = more profit.
Video games are evolving. They’re going main stream. Game designers are turning their backs on the people who made them big to begin with (hardcore gamers/ old schoolers) and are making their games more user friendly and causal. Why the hell else would Microsoft start shitting out trash like Kinetic, which was inspired by Nintendo’s wii nonsense which imo started the whole shit. It’s all about money and market share. Sadly this means true gamers are going to get pissed on.
This shit is driving me crazy. I bought a 360 + SSF4 to get the fuck away from that causal stuff (I was a long time Super Smash Brothers player, the original and Melee were legit without items and a few other regulations but Brawl is a party game. Period.) At first SSF4 was a breath of fresh air until I started realizing some of the mechanics are bullshit. Mashing is bullshit, and ultras should be removed from the game. People will argue its for a sense of comeback… lolwut? If im raping you why should you get an ultra? We have damage scaling to top it all too. And it’s cute how characters like Ryu and Chun have dope easy safe ways to combo into ultra while characters like Bison have nothing. And reversals/knockdowns mechanics? Lulz, time to play rock, paper, scissors SF style!
AE is going to be even more causal, and today I destroyed my SSF4 disk. I am not joshing, I seriously did. And it felt damn good, yo. Not because of the Bison nerfs, but because im not going through another Brawl like game ever again. SSF4 is not worth my time.
Super Street Fighter Four is borderline NOT competitve
if you disagree with me, you’re clearly in denial.
Imma lurk for lulz, see how Bison turns out and stuff. But right now I honestly don’t think im going to go back to the game. If my next boyfriend happens to play it maybe… it’s looking grim though. Marvel vs Capcom looks cool. I like Storm and Morrigan. Hopefully that will be better.