I think everyone from Covenent is definitely going to die especially if the final act, Awakening, is really a prequel to Covenant. I think that David could survive if he switches with Walter and escapes. Bear in mind also that the colony ship Covenant which is in orbit of “Paradise” has 2000 colonists in cryosleep IIRC. Something is going to happen to those guys.
I honestly cant wait to see this movie
I think people had issue with how Hicks and Newt died off screen without any real closure of their characters. It felt cheap and lazy… which is exactly what it was. If they needed to die, fine, but it was quite the lazy solution.
My biggest problem with Alien 3 is that it just tried too hard to be Alien without bringing much else to the table, and the film just ended up being a confused mess. It tried the whole trapped with a monster (the Xenomorph) in a claustrophobic setting (a prison), just like the first film. Just like the first film, no one has any weapons and have to combat the Xeno using whatever they have. However, the film just doesn’t have the spark that the first film had. It lacked nuance, tension, and terror. I can watch Alien over and over and feel the tension, despite knowing how everything will play out. When I watch Alien 3, I just never feel the same way. I thought the ending was written well though.
Alien 3 didn’t have the ‘tension’ of the first true, but it was overall a better written film with better developed characters and dialogue. I mean the monologue that Dillon gives to the inmates towards the end alone shits on 99% of all dialogue in the previous 2 films.
I think the death of Newt and Hicks were mercies. You don’t want a young girl who has already been through enough being gangraped by prisoners. Their deaths narratively speaking were blessings in disguise in the context of this universe. Their death also helped establish just how hopeless Ripley’s situation was from the beginning. The films are about Ripley’s personal journey with the Aliens, that’s what they evolved into and in all 3 films - Sigourney Weaver and the Aliens delivered exceptional performances.
Alien 3 is dog shit, shut the fuck up.
No. How about you suck on this:
While listening to this:
And maybe then you will learn proper discussion etiquette bitch.
I disagree about Newt and Hicks. If Newt was meant to die, it didn’t have to be like that, and she most certainly doesn’t have to get gangraped by prisoners. Just because it’s a possibility doesn’t mean it will happen. Ripley almost gets raped but is saved. Violence against children is very much looked down upon in prison as far as I know, which would probably have translated into the film anyways. I can see your points on how their deaths set the tone for Ripley at the start of the film, but I still feel like Newt and Hicks were done dirty just straight up getting killed off screen.
This wasn’t just any prison, it was a double Y chromosome prison. The inmates over there were basically the most fucked up members of our species (sans the Company). Hence why I was saying it was a good death for her to die during cryo.
I think the backlash that hit Alien3 were from people frustrated that it wasn’t Aliens 2. Which isn’t fair to the film, which IMO is a flawed masterpiece. The restored Assembly Cut which is closest to the Director’s vision is just brilliant. It would’ve been perfect if they keep the Queen Burster and Dog Burster scenes from the theatrical release. Then, it really would’ve been a true masterpiece with its religious symbolism and layered character development.
Fincher’s beautiful gloomy signature color palette and cinematography were omnipresent (before they were popularized in the mainstream with his later films) and Goldenthal’s score in inarguably the best in the series. Alien3 had so much going for it and so much more going against it too from studio tampering, and in spite of all that it still ended up being a great film. History will keep vindicating it (except for some of those awful CGI shots, but then again some of the man-in-suit shots in Alien haven’t aged as well either).
(Huh. Spirit Juice has basically already replied with the general sentiment of what I was going to say. Thanks, Spirit Juice.)
That said, if we’re suddenly just playing “More Nihilistic Than Thou”, then I’m pretty sure you still lose to me, Daemos, between the fact that I realized what you said about life long ago, in part for reasons that Gasaraki already pointed out, and in part because you clearly care about the Alien series a fuckton despite said supposed nihilism. Whereas myself, I honestly mostly just like Aliens, which is weird because I usually hate the same type of overly macho, gun-loving movies that you also malign, Arnold Schwarznegger’s old movies also being among the relatively few exceptions. In fact, I’m pretty sure I still need to watch Alien all the way through, especially with John Hurt’s recent passing. [/fraud]
As for Alien 3 vs. Aliens, I think the majority of people disliked just because of what a mess it was and the fact that premise as a whole, especially Hicks & Newt’s deaths and Ripley’s “virgin” Alien impregnation & birth, just felt…lazy on top of the utter bleakness. Sure, even if it had not been messed with, then I’m sure it would have been (even) bleaker than Aliens and probably put some people off simply because of that since, really, the likeliest way for the trilogy to end was in her death given both the sci-fi genre and the horror genre tending to have downer endings. But the fact that she doesn’t even get a glimmer of happiness that we get to really see get ripped away on-film just cheapens the whole damn thing to me and I’m sure a bunch of other people.
Still, I will admit that it’s interesting to see someone so vehemently and mostly civilly defend Alien 3 given most people I’ve encountered hate or at least dislike that movie, though I’ve been aware that you’ve liked it for years; it’s just interesting to now know why.
(No problem, The Damned.)
I don’t think Alien 3 is a bad film at all in its cinematic cut, just very mediocre and for the reasons I’ve already said that it tried too hard to be Alien.
I find it interesting that you guys say Aliens is a macho bravado movie when I never really got that feeling at all. The main lead is a strong female character supported by dumb ass meatheads that pretty much prop her up to be a hero, save Bishop, and, to a lesser extent, Hicks. Almost all the male characters are cowardly or incompetent. Bishop and Hicks are the only male characters that don’t crumble under pressure, although Bishop is an android (and technically not male either) so you could argue he doesn’t count. Vasquez is more capable than most of the male characters as well, but she ended up being a red shirt like most of the others. Ripley pretty much does all the heavy lifting in the movie, especially at the end (pun intended).
All that said, I really love Alien the best out of all the Alien franchise films. The movie is still a sci-fi horror masterpiece that still holds up very well in today’s films, mostly through clever use of cinematography. Sure there are a few parts of “guy in a rubber suit” that stand out a little, but it still looks more believable than any CGI you see today. I’m super biased about practical effects though.
(I have to wonder if that “get away from her, you bitch” line is the most memetic thing about the entire Alien franchise at this point.)
Oh, I actually don’t think that Aliens is actually a macho bravado movie personally. I just can see why Daemos is comparing it to one given the initial premise is sort of like a lot of them on the surface.
It’s just that, if anything, I would count it as a subversion of them–one of the first, in fact–for pretty much all the reasons you say. They’re set-up to swoop in and save the day with their big-ass guns despite the fact that Ripley, repeatedly, says that this is effectively a bad idea…and then get their asses horribly kicked again and again despite being able to actually defend themselves unlike most of the crew members in Alien (or the prisoners in Alien 3, for that matter). Additionally, unlike with many other horror movies, especially slasher movies, the way most of people die isn’t because of anyone made dumb mistakes, their CO’s unprovenness & generally genuinely being over his head and Burke’s openly betraying them later aside. Them getting ambushed is pretty legitimate because not even Ripley realized what was happening until it was too late despite having her suspicions.
And yet it’s a subversion is still weirdly enjoyable even in a “mainstream” way despite almost all of these characters that die actually having personalities and likable ones at that unlike the typical action movies that Daemos and I were maligning. It is also pretty funny that, yes, Vasquez is one of the “manliest” people in the movie and lasts the longest of the characters who die, but she’s primarily remembered for inspiring the trope of “Vasquez Always Dies” about how “macho” female characters inevitably die in movies; this arguably applies to Ripley herself given we’re talking about Alien 3 so much as of late. Still, that’s more about Hollywood trends than anything to do with Aliens given her death made sense (unfortunately) and she went down fighting at least, so that’s an entirely different topic of discussion.
Speaking of which, yeah, I wish more movies (and TV shows as well) would use practical effects over CGI where it would make sense to do so.
looks at The Thing movie from 2011 and sighs again
Aliens is absolutely a subversion of the typical macho action movie. Thats a lot of what makes it so fucking good.
It really isn’t Alien3 vs Aliens to me, but people make it so. I fucking LOVE Aliens and Weaver deserved the academy award for that. But I hate when people think that Aliens is what defined this franchise, when the franchise is less about action and more true sci-fi. Darker, horrifying, and much more psychological.
Alien3 is the darkest and most psychological of the three. It is the true spiritual successor of Alien IMO but that doesn’t take away from the perfection that is Aliens. Each of the 3 chapters present different themes and ideas, they don’t compete with one another - they complete each other. I think Alien3 does follow the ideas of the series to their only logical conclusion. There is something Lovecraftian about the hopelessness that Alien3 managed to achieve which I admire for its bravery. Alien3 followed through with its idea with complete disregard to our feelings, much like Game of Thrones for example, and it did it because the narrative demanded it, because it was necessary to get the message across. The film is just so fucking dark and bleak. It’s intoxicating. Far from perfect, but definitely ahead of its time.
I see the original trilogy as one of the absolute best cinematic trilogies conceived. Just a perfect 3 act story.
Lastly, the glimmer of happiness you speak of is there if you want to see it. Ellen Ripley died knowing that she saved everything. We’ve seen now what this species are capable of from Prometheus and soon from Covenant. This thing is a weapon, revered as a god, and feared as the devil. It is the zenith of evolution, and its master, it is perfect. With this understanding, how can one not see the glimmer of hope set to Goldenthal’s Adagio that Alien3 left us with - Ellen Ripley saved the universe. Literally
Oh my fucking God, shut up.
You love Alien 3, we get it.
Stop reading my posts then fuckface. This is a discussion thread. If you want a circle jerk go to a gay cruising alley.
(Now now. Keep it civil please.)
If you want to stop talking about Alien 3, then please feel to bring up something else to talk about. Not like there’s much new to talk about until Covenant actually comes out and, personally, right now I think I’ll skip that unless there are some glowing reviews given what a bad taste Prometheus left in my mouth.
That said, I think I’ve talked about Alien 3 enough for now to sate my own interests. Thanks for the elucidation on your views, Daemos, even if they do come off as a bit…intense in some aspects.
Hmm…I guess I would have to watch Alien 3 again, which I am highly unlikely to do any time soon admittedly, but I think part of what cheapened the thing to me was because as noble (and, well, necessary since was going to die anyway) as Ripley’s sacrifice was, I always felt that her death didn’t assuredly end the threat of there being more xenomorphs out there. This especially since in Alien they don’t even know where the Space Jockey actually came from and the original trilogy indeed does address that at all, which is the main reason that Prometheus
and now Covenant exist in the first place (beyond the search for more money). Prometheus, while obviously trying to explain that, just opened up more issues along that line, which doesn’t help the hopefulness there.
Still, that’s an interesting interpretation, so thanks.
Touche. That’s definitely the most iconic, memetic, and overall parodied moment from the Alien franchise overall.
As far as spoken lines though, it seems like all or at least almost all of the most memorable lines come from Aliens between “Get away from her, you bitch”, “Game over, man. Game over”, and “Nuke it from orbit. It’s only the way to be sure.” A bit weird now that I think about it, though I suppose it still somewhat fits given Aliens had the most “banter” of three.
There’s not a lot of reason to be chatty when a genetically modified death machine is stalking you from the shadows and picking off all your comrades.
Yeah as a spoken line, short of the slogan of Alien (In Space No One Can Hear You Scream), Bitch and Game Over win hands down.
Also do pardon my ‘intensity’ but I’m a die hard fan of the franchise (more so than SF), in particular the films (The fact that Sigourney Weaver and many others are grade A actors helps alot). Definitely on that Prometheus Defense Force team too btw. 
I have shit memorized and know the canon more than I am willing to admit to. I’m actually quite surprised I didn’t stumble on this corner of SRK in my 15 years here. All those missed opportunities to be intense… Damn.
You guys seen this:
Aliens has the most quotes lines because it’s the talkiest of the movies and has arguably the best script in the series as far as character interaction goes.
Nah. Aliens has a lot of epic one liners, catch phrases, it’s very quotable.
But it terms of sheer dialogue and character development Alien3 has the edge. That film was one monologue after the other. Ripley, Dillon, Golic, Morse, Warden, 85, and of course Dr. Clemens really stick out as unique characters with pasts relative to one another.