Alex doesn’t have the best oki off of powerbomb, but after ex chop, he is insanely plus.
For 3 frame normals, I think his best frame traps involve either two lights into lp chop, which is plus 2 on hit, or ticks into grab. Risky, but he is a grappler after all.
stand jab is an alright normal, but you have to time it right since it gets beat as much as it works it seems lol. ex dp is pretty good. I would compare it to laura’s, but without the invincibility frames.
I honestly don’t use st mk that much. I think cr mp is a way better normal since you can buffer charge for stun gun and stomp without being as obvious about it.
You can buffer charge while hitting normals dude. You can make it less obvious. I love charging headbutt during power bomb animations and then doing them meaty. If your opponent gets conditioned to jump you can start working in slash which catches airborne opponents.
hp chop is cool because it combos into power bomb. After a v skill you can combo hp into hp chop and then power bomb for 300 damage.
Every successful parry actually charges his v gauge. So he could theoretically stay in v trigger the whole match. st hp is longest comboable normal. After v skill cr mk combos into clothesline, so that could be longest comboable poke?
I think he’s a great character, just has to be played differently than everyone is used to from 3rd strike. Just my two cents off the top of my head.
Did you seriously just complain about a command grab being able to be jumped out of? How the fuck do you expect me to take you seriously when you’re acting this retarded? The l.elbow is meaty, it’s between -1 and +1 but I’m unsure of the frame advantage, st.hk is -4 with -1 at best on block so I can agree with you there, but you use meaty st.hk as a retaliation to them pressing buttons on block - an adjustment you make against each opponent.
So like, you play Street Fighter.
Do you want to frame trap them at mid-range? Are you fucking high? Where else do you want to frame trap other than close range like EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE GAME? If you’re close enough for st.mp > st.mp you’re close enough for st.mp > st.lp/cr.lp.
OH SHIT YOU’RE TRYING TO SAY YOU’LL HAVE TO PLAY STREET FIGHTER? WELL COLOUR ME FUCKING SURPRISED ALEX SURE IS DOGSHIT THEN ISN’T HE? I CAN’T BELIEVE WE AS ALEX PLAYERS HAVE BEEN SENT INTO DAMNATION BY HAVING TO ADJUST TO OUR OPPONENTS DEFENSIVE OPTIONS. SURELY WE ARE A DOWNTRODDEN RACE OF PEASANTS.
There’s a god damn video of the hitboxes in motion in slow motion in the sub-forum, how about go and watch it before assuming shit without LOOKING UP THE DAMN DATA, it has a hitbox that hops over low hitting normals to hit them in the midriff, there is no arguing this fact. It beats Karin’s cr.mk clean, and a couple other low forwards at the right spacing. And cr.mp is +1 on block, +2 on hit with 3 active frames allowing for anything up to +5 on hit and +4 on block allowing for continued pressure, whilst +1 on block isn’t fantastic +2 on hit allows Alex to throw in a couple buttons and beat out anything 4f, not to mention using st.mk after this button to stuff a follow up or using st.hk to hop over a low poke and CC them right in the down-under. Let me know why getting + frames on block and hit isn’t rewarding, not to mention VTC xx CA exists for your hit confirming needs.
You can do blockstrings into it from a standing mp into immediate cr.lp xx headbutt/stomp due to charge buffering, or I suppose you’ve been doing it raw in the middle of neutral randomly right? I wonder why ya think it’s bad, must just be coincidence!
Sick, you’re spending meter that runs immediately into a 4f trap between a st.mp meaty and a Powerbomb tick throw. They have a 3f normal? Use st.lp > st.mp. They jump from your command grab? That’s information you use in the future to get reads on them, use regular throw next time instead and use EX Knee/st.lp on reaction to them if they jump. But it’s not like I expect you to be able to use the knee properly because holding a down charge is really fucking difficult for some people. YOU DON’T DO IT FULLSCREEN RANDOMLY OH SHIT ISN’T THAT SOME FUCKING CLAIRVOYANT SHIT I JUST DROPPED ON YOUR ASS :D?!
I even wrote that it isn’t the best option in most cases and that it’s just quickly accessible for certain punish scenarios like a DP punish. And cr.hp - l.chop does not deal more stun that st.hp xx h.chop xx powedrop, that’s a flatout lie. They can also backrise from the l.chop which they can’t from powerdrop and EX powerdrop opens up better oki for Alex, be sure to list all the advantages instead of just the ones that you want to list if you’re mr.objective
His v-trigger is fine, if you’re using sledgehammer as a far ranged poke confirm you’re doing it wrong plain and simple. It’s a combo extension tool, not a poking tool. Next you’ll complain elbow doesn’t throw out a projectile in it’s active frames.
Yes it is. You literally just did this.
Talking out of your ass.
This is why I don’t like you. Can SOMEONE PLEASE CALL OUT THE FUCKING IRONY.
LIKE PLEASE.
HOLLA AT YA BOY.
Don’t, I’d honestly rather you move onto another character. You’ve done nothing but whine since posting here, fuck off.
Alex hasn’t been out a week. Stop worrying about where the fuck he’s going to fall on the tier list and just play the fucking character - OR - don’t.
The game is so new the meta hasn’t even settled. We’ve only seen 2 premier events, both with incredibly variable Top 8 and Top 16 character representation.
Calm the fuck down. Let’s not turn the Alex subforum toxic with all this doom and gloom. Either contribute to the growing well of knowledge or get the fuck out. It’s really that simple.
Lets be fair though. Everyone without a 3frame normal is trash tier in this game.
Nash doesn’t have a 3 frame normal or a reversal… He must be Alex tier too.
Edit - It does make me laugh that most of us knew Alex wasn’t going to be great but wanted to play him anyway. Now we’ve got people here telling the world how bad Alex is awful because, people can jump…? Because he doesn’t have a 3 frame normal? Because although he runs a train on people once he’s in, getting in requires work?
To the people complaining - Go read his frame data. You’ll notice it’s not meant to be “Good” but it is meant to be interesting. Everything is set up in a way that wants you to land a counter/hard hit. It’s all very specific.
His frame data had time taken over it rather than some of the characters where it looks like someone threw some dice and wrote down the answers.
Just something else that might be obvious but as far as stun combos (I mean combos on someone stunned), seems a lot of people are doing vskill s.hk, c.hp, slash mid screen (why not, it looks baller!) but its actually a lot more damage just to do vskill s.hp, hp.chop, backdrop. I know the other is good for corner carrying but you don’t always need to do that right, sometimes you might want to swap sides or get the kill.
245 to 301 (333 with ex drop) and its less hits so less scaling theoretically.
If you’re feeling it, you’re better off doing vskill, j.hp, s.hp, mp.chop, powerbomb. This does like 413 (473 with ex). Resume the oki.
Oh and can anyone point me in the direction of some oki shizzle on non quick rise? churs.
Just checking - Do you mean V-Skill when you say V-Trigger? I’m assuming you do and I’ll reply with that in mind.
If I am midscreen, I tend to go with the st.HK, HK-Slash, LP-Flash because of the insane corner carry you get from it.
The second combo I would use if my back was closer to the corner (Around 1/3 of the screen away from the corner) because it places them towards the corner.
Basically - If I’m midscreen and I don’t think I can kill I will always opt for the corner carry. Alex is so much scarier when he’s walking you down and your back is against the wall.
Also the distancing of st.HK, Hk-Slash, cr.HP, Knee/LP-Flash is further out than it initially seems because of how far the HK-Slash takes you.
Most entertaining string of posts I’ve ever seen that contained that much useful information basically ever.
Also, I’m with you on the frame data, I don’t think I’ve seen a fighting game where there’s as much apparent effort put into considering each button and how they operate (even the insane wtf choices seem intentional) and it’s clear in a lot of places where they were going with his. All of Alex’s buttons have a use, and they do it well. He doesn’t have any nut buttons, but he’s got solid ones.
I definitely understand where people are concerned about Alex’s viability, cuz I’d been struggling with him for a few days, but something clicked tonight and I felt like he suddenly made perfect sense. He’s an odd bird, but I think he is a much more complete, more capable character than people realize, and, as of tonight, he’s officially the most fun I’ve had in this game by far!
I said before that I thought Alex in 3S was a charge grappler done right, despite his design being slightly incoherent in places. Well I may be on a power bomb high, but I think they actually made him better.
It’s no worries. I’ve only been up around 45 minutes or so. so when I read it through the first time my brain refused to understand.
Is a really easy mistake to make too.
About oki vs non-quickrise - I’m currently working on the frame data for some frame kill set ups. It’ll take me a little while but I’m hoping to have at least a few that use the oki we’d already use, react to the fact that they’re not quickrising and still force a situation.
In all honesty I think they made him exactly the same. xD
He’s a powerhouse that needs to work hard and isn’t always rewarded but when he is, shit gets real. Why do you think he’s doing squats even when he wins? He knows he needs to keep working hard.
Going over his frame data again - Just looking through it screams that everything is intentional. I don’t think I’ve seen that much (For lack of a better term) nuance in an SFV character’s frame data. Everything is for a reason.
Well everything except for Stomps being -5 (-4 would’ve been fine) and Superman being -20. Seriously, I get that they don’t want it to be safe but it could’ve been -10 as that’s still stupid punishable. Only things I truly have a problem with and even then, they’re not the end of the world, just quality of life stuff.
Haha, I feel like the -20 thing was done almost as a joke, but considering it’s literally a headfirst, yolo, superman dive it almost makes sense. They probably considered taking the move out (since it was always terrible) and then just decided to leave it in, and leave it terrible cuz it’s got character. Someone is going to win a game with that stupid move in a major someday and it’s gonna be hype. I agree on stomps though, I think the hitbox should be at least a tiny bit wider as well, if only because it misses at times it really looks like it should hit.
And when I say they made him better, I don’t necessarily mean in a tier list sort-of-way, I mean it in an overall coherency of design sort of way. He feels more complete now as a character. At first I thought the changes they made felt very arbitrary and pointless, but once you get the hang of him they start to make good sense.
He was pissing me off with retarded bullshit and I was tired, so that happened. He complained because people could jump out of a command grab, like what? LOL
His frame data is super tailored towards him though, you can tell they’ve had to think super carefully when designing him to not make anything broken/unviable. The only dead tool I feel we have is flying cross-chop, that move is pretty much complete garbage. If we had more buttons that were +3 we’d be a fucking monster up close, imagine if st.mp was +3 on block? Time to guess after every hit.
I think his frame data is solid though, the only thing I want is for flying cross chop to be usable in the future.
I dont think cross chop is useless at all. Its a high risk/high reward to fuck with peoples anti air timing. Since he pauses so long in the air its pretty easy to make their anti airs wiff (against most chars). That said its best used in moderation hehe.
It definitely has it’s uses but I think it could’ve been -10 or so. Still going to be taking around 30-40% if they block but not “Do whatever the hell you want”. Maybe it’s just the math nerd in me but -20 is like double -10 and then scares me. xD
I agree with the Anti Air timing change. That’s won me some games due to never using it and then busting it out at the end of a set when they’re expecting a j.MP/HP.
I also like it as a 3/4 screen fireball read. You jump forward out of AA range and if you see the fireball start up, let rip. I’m not sure how consistent it is so when I get the chance I’ll work on a video showing what fireballs it can punish and the distance at which you can do it.
My biggest woe right now is my inability to use Stomps and Headbutt effectively. I know it’s going to take time to get used to them but watching replays of myself going for it I just think “That is so bait and you’re going to die because of it.”.
So I’m looking at the frame data and I spot that V-Reversal has 23 frames of start up. Everyone else’s are between 10 and 17.
That’s a slow ass V-Reversal.
Then I look to see what kind of advantage we’re at if we hit it.
The answer is +27 on a quickrise.
So unless the frame data is wrong - We get to apply our pressure after V-Reversal. With 27 frames we can dash in and still have 8 frames to work with. 11 if you think of it from the earlier they can have a button come out which means that, unless I’ve really messed up, we can dash up f.HP after we V-Reversal and it will hit meaty.
I’m going to hit the lab in a bit and this is all just theory going on the frame data but that seems really, really good.
Counter pressure and get to start my own? I’m down for that.
Can anyone tell me how Alex build his vmeter… Bec for whatever reason it builds up really fast, even after I use a bar which I constantly do. It builds up really fast. I’ve used 3 bars in one round while having my second bar full.
And yea after a vreversal the advantage is really good. It feels like his lack of reversal is a bit covered by this…
I can beat most opponents in my point grop but when I get some chun li or karin that starts going footsies on me and only do pokes and properly anti air me all the time I have no idea how to beat that… I try to poke back but its really difficult. I guess st.mp is the way to go?
You’re correct, I’ve tested post V-Reversal oki in the lab and this works but is entirely spacing dependent to get the f.hp to connect. Otherwise you’ll have to walk forward > st.mp, f.hps hitbox is really awkward to land on unless you’re point blank.
It just adds to Alex being even more meter dependent. He’s REALLY meter dependent.
