Alex General Discussion: "At ease, loo-suh!" The Alex SFV Thread

[CrimsonBlue]

Man i wish he had more active frames on his standing lp. Wouldnt that make it a little easier to anti air with?

[Frost]

It has 3 active frames, that isn’t too bad and give you some leniency.

[ProtoIno]

Anyone have the hitbox/hurt box for alex yet…? Want to see which jump in i should be doing more and compare the range of his s.lp and c.lp

[afrotronic]

Anyone have the hitbox/hurt box for alex yet…? Want to see which jump in i should be doing more and compare the range of his s.lp and c.lp

There is a vid of all his hit boxes in slowmotion in a topic on the first page of the alex sub forum.

Edit: link Making You Loosuhs Great Again: Alex Hit Box Video In Slow-Mo

[ProtoIno]

Anyone have the hitbox/hurt box for alex yet…? Want to see which jump in i should be doing more and compare the range of his s.lp and c.lp

There is a vid of all his hit boxes in slowmotion in a topic on the first page of the alex sub forum.

Edit: link Making You Loosuhs Great Again: Alex Hit Box Video In Slow-Mo

Wow i didnt see that, thanks.

And whats with all the doom and gloom in this thread? I think alex is fine and really fun to use. He isn’t perfect but he isn’t god awful… no character is awful in this game, so far. Just not everybody can be relatively easy to use like ryu,chun or Nash.(not saying alex is hard to use by any means)

Edit: so far my only personal complaint with him is controlling his ex stomp or stun gun is really hard for me.

[Slizzard]

I was complaining about this before and it’s going to be a terminal problem for him. s. lp, s. mp loses to 3 frame moves and those characters that have them (there’s a lot too, Ryu, Mika, Karin, Chun, Necalli, Dhalsim, Vega, Rashid, Laura Cammy) 10 out of the 17 characters, stuff not only s. lp, s. mp, but also s. lp, powerbomb. If the s. lp is blocked of course. Or anything that’s +2 on block for Alex. Of course s. lp, s. lp may ch so you can do some risk free tricks there. But nonetheless it’s not as good.

If he had no 3f frame traps I’d be worried about this, but that isn’t the case. You can’t expect an opponent to mash a button after everything you press, from every button that leads into a 4f trap you also have a 3f option as well, you expect me to believe after you’ve caught them in a 3f trap multiple times they’ll continue to mash? Not the case.

You just need to train your opponent, at that point your 4f traps and Powerbomb ticks regain their viability, you’re forcing your opponent to guess between mashing out a normal or getting blown up by a trap.

So in short, play Street Fighter and you shouldn’t be worried.

Yeah of course you can do that. You can also train people to not dp by punishing them when you block it. But the opponent having a dp limits your options and your opponent having options and you having to adjust to those options makes your options not as powerful because you have to bait them before you can move forward.

Would you prefer alex did, or didn’t have a meterless dp? After all, the opponent could always just block and punish it. We know the answer. If Mika touched you with her 3 frame jab that is +2 on block, which is more dangerous, her throw being 5 frames (which it is) or 6 where she has to choose extra options?

Alex doesn’t GAIN anything in exchange for all these considerations, he just is forced to make extra choices in exchange for…nothing. He doesn’t do more damage or get more advantage than others do, it’s the same. But he jumps through an extra hoop for no reason making him a little weaker in exchange for no payoff. That’s my problem with Alex.

Here’s the sad thing: If Alex had a 3 frame s. lp, a 3 frame c. lp, and a 5 frame powerbomb…he would barely be mid tier but it would make him way better. Yet he has none of those things.

[Muttonman]

I was complaining about this before and it’s going to be a terminal problem for him. s. lp, s. mp loses to 3 frame moves and those characters that have them (there’s a lot too, Ryu, Mika, Karin, Chun, Necalli, Dhalsim, Vega, Rashid, Laura Cammy) 10 out of the 17 characters, stuff not only s. lp, s. mp, but also s. lp, powerbomb. If the s. lp is blocked of course. Or anything that’s +2 on block for Alex. Of course s. lp, s. lp may ch so you can do some risk free tricks there. But nonetheless it’s not as good.

If he had no 3f frame traps I’d be worried about this, but that isn’t the case. You can’t expect an opponent to mash a button after everything you press, from every button that leads into a 4f trap you also have a 3f option as well, you expect me to believe after you’ve caught them in a 3f trap multiple times they’ll continue to mash? Not the case.

You just need to train your opponent, at that point your 4f traps and Powerbomb ticks regain their viability, you’re forcing your opponent to guess between mashing out a normal or getting blown up by a trap.

So in short, play Street Fighter and you shouldn’t be worried.

Yeah of course you can do that. You can also train people to not dp by punishing them when you block it. But the opponent having a dp limits your options and your opponent having options and you having to adjust to those options makes your options not as powerful because you have to bait them before you can move forward.

Would you prefer alex did, or didn’t have a meterless dp? After all, the opponent could always just block and punish it. We know the answer. If Mika touched you with her 3 frame jab that is +2 on block, which is more dangerous, her throw being 5 frames (which it is) or 6 where she has to choose extra options?

Alex doesn’t GAIN anything in exchange for all these considerations, he just is forced to make extra choices in exchange for…nothing. He doesn’t do more damage or get more advantage than others do, it’s the same. But he jumps through an extra hoop for no reason making him a little weaker in exchange for no payoff. That’s my problem with Alex.

Here’s the sad thing: If Alex had a 3 frame s. lp, a 3 frame c. lp, and a 5 frame powerbomb…he would barely be mid tier but it would make him way better. Yet he has none of those things.

st.lp xx LP Chop is a really good frametrap against 3f normals because you actually get more if you trade than if you just CH. But the trade off against say Mika is that while Mika has a great jab and a 5f scoop, Alex has fuckhuge buttons. He also has the advantage that his hit confirm medium isn’t negative on block while all of Mika’s are.

[Bronn]

cr.mp is a really good button vs Ryu. Eats him alive at range, and all he can really do is maybe sweep.

but against Ken it’s just asking for a CC st.hk. lol, very conflicting buttons per matchup I guess.

[Slizzard]

I was complaining about this before and it’s going to be a terminal problem for him. s. lp, s. mp loses to 3 frame moves and those characters that have them (there’s a lot too, Ryu, Mika, Karin, Chun, Necalli, Dhalsim, Vega, Rashid, Laura Cammy) 10 out of the 17 characters, stuff not only s. lp, s. mp, but also s. lp, powerbomb. If the s. lp is blocked of course. Or anything that’s +2 on block for Alex. Of course s. lp, s. lp may ch so you can do some risk free tricks there. But nonetheless it’s not as good.

If he had no 3f frame traps I’d be worried about this, but that isn’t the case. You can’t expect an opponent to mash a button after everything you press, from every button that leads into a 4f trap you also have a 3f option as well, you expect me to believe after you’ve caught them in a 3f trap multiple times they’ll continue to mash? Not the case.

You just need to train your opponent, at that point your 4f traps and Powerbomb ticks regain their viability, you’re forcing your opponent to guess between mashing out a normal or getting blown up by a trap.

So in short, play Street Fighter and you shouldn’t be worried.

Yeah of course you can do that. You can also train people to not dp by punishing them when you block it. But the opponent having a dp limits your options and your opponent having options and you having to adjust to those options makes your options not as powerful because you have to bait them before you can move forward.

Would you prefer alex did, or didn’t have a meterless dp? After all, the opponent could always just block and punish it. We know the answer. If Mika touched you with her 3 frame jab that is +2 on block, which is more dangerous, her throw being 5 frames (which it is) or 6 where she has to choose extra options?

Alex doesn’t GAIN anything in exchange for all these considerations, he just is forced to make extra choices in exchange for…nothing. He doesn’t do more damage or get more advantage than others do, it’s the same. But he jumps through an extra hoop for no reason making him a little weaker in exchange for no payoff. That’s my problem with Alex.

Here’s the sad thing: If Alex had a 3 frame s. lp, a 3 frame c. lp, and a 5 frame powerbomb…he would barely be mid tier but it would make him way better. Yet he has none of those things.

st.lp xx LP Chop is a really good frametrap against 3f normals because you actually get more if you trade than if you just CH. But the trade off against say Mika is that while Mika has a great jab and a 5f scoop, Alex has fuckhuge buttons. He also has the advantage that his hit confirm medium isn’t negative on block while all of Mika’s are.

Sure, now we’re talking about hoping for responses rather than forcing responses like we would if powerbomb was 5 frames where all non reversals and buttons in general would be eliminated. If his powerbomb was 5 frame, people wouldn’t be able to tap any button, they’d have to consider either blocking or holding up. But now there’s that extra option. That’s all I’m saying. I know what we can do and what we can hope for the opponent to do. It’s just not the same. Does that mean Alex is crippled and unplayable with no setups? Of course not. Is he being held back by frame data? Yes.

We’re talking about close range too so those fuckhuge buttons don’t come into play there. Alex DOES have nice pokes but they aren’t nice enough to make up for this like I said. I just feel like something should be buffed. Of course it’s way too late for that unfortunately but so be it.

I’ll say it again: If Alex had a 3 frame s. lp, a 3 frame c. lp, and a 5 frame powerbomb…he would barely be mid tier. Which sucks.

[Jerom]

Alex biggest problem is he just isnt as good as the people in this thread wanted him to be. He didnt seem good to me the first day but after playing him alot more and learning tech people have been sharing i think this character has serious potential. Maybe. If not atleast hes very fun to play.

Many top players are playing him right now. Hopefully we see some pro Alex play at the next tournament.

[Bronn]

People are hating on SFV Alex because people thought he’d still be the mobile/chop spammer he was to newbies in 3s.
Here it seems like he’s a much less mobile, much less spammy poke character whose gameplay is force them to jump/keep them at bay until he can get a VTC confirm off a poke into a mp chop mixup.

He’ll be good when people finally realize this I think. But still, tough pill to swallow because I never thought he’d be a poke confirm mixup character either…the only 3s left in him is the hitconfirms into EX Chop honestly.

[Jonmkl]

So in short, play Street Fighter and you shouldn’t be worried.

Savage! XD

[GenUser]

This character is good imo great no, but he can hang in my opinion

[Frost]

People are hating on SFV Alex because people thought he’d still be the mobile/chop spammer he was to newbies in 3s.
Here it seems like he’s a much less mobile, much less spammy poke character whose gameplay is force them to jump/keep them at bay until he can get a VTC confirm off a poke into a mp chop mixup.

He’ll be good when people finally realize this I think. But still, tough pill to swallow because I never thought he’d be a poke confirm mixup character either…the only 3s left in him is the hitconfirms into EX Chop honestly.

People like to complain because they can’t win using braindead options that require no adaptation.

Oh no I have to switch up my pressure and can’t use the same blockstring every match this character is bottom 5 I’m going back to Mika D:

[OilyKoryuken]

So anyone have alex match videos? Top 100 CFN has plenty of alex icons but no alex matches really

[Rioting_Soul]

My very first ranked match using Alex and I get ragequit on. I wasn’t even good.

[notGeckoRoman]

Won a 2/3 against a gold player in Alex mirrors. Didn’t drop a game.

At ease, loosuh.

[Yari]

If I may, in opposition to your points.

• Are you referring to after Powerbomb the opponent can jump away? False, you can meaty st.hk and meaty l.elbow them and catch pre-jump frames. Are you referring to the fact that people can jump out of command grabs? Well god damn what else do you want an unblockable move?

• I’ve already explained the reasoning behind why his command grab is 6f, read up to see more. If his command grab were 5f he would just be a better Zangief, and his Powerbomb tick game would be broken leading into 3f traps after EVERY normal he uses for pressure, essentially a block/backdash/jump/reversal mix-up after EVERY close hit. That’s too strong for a hybrid character.

• 3f normals give him a tough time, but they don’t destroy his pressure they just CHANGE it.(Oh no, adaptation!!) You realise we have 3f frame traps right? St.mp > st.lp is a 3f trap, cr.lp xx l.chop trades into st.hp xx m.chop against 3f normals, cr.lk > st.lp is a 3f trap. The only thing 3f normals truly stop is our Powerbomb tick game, and even so we still have methods to apply Powerbomb tick pressure against 3f normals albeit at a lesser rate. But between using our 3f frame traps, if your opponent keeps mashing their 3f normal you win regardless due to them not blocking or respecting your ability to shut it down.

• Jumps don’t destroy his pressure LMAO they make it stronger, please hold up against my Alex. I will frame trap you again and again into an almost immediate stun. I can frame trap anybody that decides to hold up against me to oblivion, st.lp > st.mp, st.mp > st.mp, cr.lp > st.mp all work against people holding up.

• St.mk’s hitbox/hurtbox data is good? Same for his cr.mp, they both reach far - st.mp is +1 on block and st.mk hops over low attacks at the correct spacing like E.Ryu’s st.mk in USFIV. St.lk is also a great tool for EX chop buffers to stop people walking into your space. Is 7f and 8f start-up slow to you? Just because they aren’t 4-6f doesn’t mean they’re garbage, you just have to poke with them correctly.

• Poor defence yes but we have one of the better v-reversals that knocks down into oki to deal with strong pressure characters, bad anti-airs no. Just awkward to properly apply, huge difference. None of his anti-airs aside from regular knee have bad application but they DO require correct spacing and timing to use correctly.

• Diving cross-chop is pretty bad I’ll admit, but it still has uses as an air-to-air and catching people off-guard from fullscreen if they throw a fireball. Like a very slow Ken EX tatsu.

• Headbutt is an “caught you off guard! AHAHA YOU IDIOT!” move, like Birdie’s dive grab. What more do you want? It’s got around the same data as the dive grab from Birdie and it looks like a regular jump to throw the opponent off guard.

• Yeah stomp doesn’t cross-up(As far as I’ve tested) but it’s an almost full-screen answer to fireballs and EX stomp is +2 on block which is insanely good for getting Alex in and starting pressure.

• Hp.chop is used for post stun combos(not the best option, but good for quick midscreen combos if you have no charge ready), counter hit combos, reversal punishes. Leads into Powerdrop for like 500 stun which is why it’s so powerful, Ryu decides to DP on his wake-up and you block it? st.hp xx h.chop xx powerdrop, he’s probably stunned if you’d just landed a combo beforehand.

• V-Skill is pretty bad outside of landing combos on people who are stunned I’ll admit. I don’t use it much. It’s fun to use though.

• His V-Trigger is amazing what do you mean? You gain access to his parry and you can cancel out of any of his normals on hit into the V-Trigger activation and confirm into some RIDICULOUS damage, not to mention cr.mp(buffer VTC) xx VTC > CA is a legit good poke to throw out if you have the resources available. V-Trigger is one of his best things.

It’s like people cherry pick negative points or something :o

Ok lets address some points.

Power Bomb
Yes, obviously I was talking about after the grab. And wow, so great… his only option is a negative on block move that doesnt even put him remotely close to the opponent (that will still get away outside the corner).

3f Normals
Right right, adaptation… I’m sure a good players will mash at every opportunity they can. And really? You give me 2 frametraps that: 1- Wont work at most ranges he’s usually at(st.MP> st.LP), 2- Ends with a move that is negative on block and even is outright punishable by some characters! Quite the frametraps this big boy got eh… Sorry, but these options are way too linear, predictable and is hardly a suitable reward for the risk he needs to put in with Power Bomb.

Jumps
Again, you’re still thinking about a perfect world where I wont mix my defensive options (nothing, reversal, mash, jump, backdash) and will mindless mash your pressure. Risk/Reward wise you’re still in a not so favorable position… that you had TO WORK to even earn! This weakens his pressure alot.

st.MK
I dont know, I’m fairly sure many other normals like Cammy’s cr.MP, Chun’s cr.HK and others have beaten it cleanly. And ok, st.MP is decent as a keepaway move… but that’s it. Still not rewarding on hit, still slow and basically serves only to stall your opponent.

Headbutt
The difference is that Birdie DOESNT NEED to sit his ass for 2 seconds to perform that move, so it’s harder to predict! Alex’s is ridiculously bad in comparison, eventually people will realize that and just like the Dive Punch it’s gonna be yet another useless move in his arsenal.

Stomp
Sick, you’re spending meter for a move that is barely plus on block. Again, sit his ass for 2 seconds to perform and hope your opponent doesnt realize that and conveniently throw a fireball for you.

HP Chop
Cool… lots of stun. Except there are better punish combos leads to 600+ Stun and combos that are better to form (cr.HP> LP Chop routes give him the best Damage/Stun/Knockdown advantage).

V-Trigger
A parry that is just as good as Ryu’s (which isnt even glorious in the context of this game, and is free) that costs a valuable resource… hmm I dont know!
Yes, you can definitely cancel his normals into it for RIDICULOUS Damage… as long as you can get st.MP to connect (his longest and comboable move), which wont always be the case. It’s pretty bad how not even cr.MK> Sledgehammer is a combo option considering that it’s one of his reasonably threatening moves (good range, is a low, beats many other normals). Needs some tweaking, either less startup or safer on block.

And since people are still missing the point, as usual, this is not an Alex hate or cherry picking his weaknesses!
If it looks like this way it’s just because that, due to the way his moves, tools and gameplay interact with the other characters and the game itself, he lacks or has weak attributes to do well in the game compared to other characters.

These kinds of discussions are hard and will lead to nowhere if the participants dont know basic things like: Definitions of Strong/Weak under the context of a game, Toolsets and synergy with the Movelist and Matchup Interactions. We’re dealing with Objetive aspects to discuss these things afterall.

But ok, I will give the benefit of doubt and wait until a Top Player makes him work…

[soncis]

• Jumps don’t destroy his pressure LMAO they make it stronger, please hold up against my Alex. I will frame trap you again and again into an almost immediate stun. I can frame trap anybody that decides to hold up against me to oblivion, st.lp > st.mp, st.mp > st.mp, cr.lp > st.mp all work against people holding up.

So s.lp works with opponents who jump at wakeup? I have difficult time with those and also opponents who jump from close.

• Hp.chop is used for post stun combos(not the best option, but good for quick midscreen combos if you have no charge ready), counter hit combos, reversal punishes. Leads into Powerdrop for like 500 stun which is why it’s so powerful, Ryu decides to DP on his wake-up and you block it? st.hp xx h.chop xx powerdrop, he’s probably stunned if you’d just landed a combo beforehand.

do you mean forward hp or st.hp ? or does st.hp link into h.chop if stunned?

To answer the first question -
Anything meaty will stop people jumping on wake-up excluding a command grab/regular grab as pre-jump frames are throw invincible and immediate, just hit them on their first possible frame from waking up with st.mp/f.hp/l.elbow/st.lp anything that has nice frame advantage when meatied properly.

Is there anything you can do on their way down?

[Jonmkl]

Alex finally clicked with me tonight and everything just made sense. I had such a blast playing matches tonight!

My boy is back!