you can option select palm + raging demon on abel’s wakeup and it’ll grab both backdash and roll. however, I think abel’s EX air throw can catch you while you’re in the air; someone should test this.
Pretty sure you can safe jump Abel’s EX sky fall throw (IIRC timing should be similar to safe jumping Chun’s ex bird kick because both are 6 frame reversals), it’ll catch bad jump-ins though, gotta time it properly.
Isn’t Abel’s wake up rate-thing faster than most, like Adon’s (not as fast though)? I got caught a few times with EX FS after f.throw > 2x dash > DF palm.
Are you talking about the one that catches backdashes? cr.lk then st.lk +st.hk. This works better on Chun-Li than the cr.RH because her backdash is so far the sweep will sometimes miss. If the opponent blocks or hit you get cr.short st. short which you can link cr.MK or faster afterwards and BnB, or tick throw or counter-hit setup. If the cr.short misses the far roundhouse will come out.
The only way to safely catch both is Super or Ultra AFAIK. In vanilla you could OS DF grab with a sweep, lol.
Yeah, the good old broken days…miss that shit vs zangief, lol…no more df throw os srk =(
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no
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Thanks for referring to my post, but it is still possible that some characters wakeup a bit faster than normal (known ones I’ve heard of are Abel and Chun-Li), but it’s pretty hard to know who wakes up faster if it’s not significant like Adon, because there’s more than 1 frame of opportunity to land a meaty jump-in on characters (i.e they wouldn’t be able to jump out on wakeup), but as for characters who wake up later than normal, the attack will simply whiff on them so they’re much easier to recognize.
With that being said, other than Adon, I didn’t see the need to change timings of jump in attacks even vs characters who might wakeup a bit faster, for example doing this test:
Recorded Akuma to sweep Sagat and land a meaty jump in on his wakeup, then replayed that vs Chun li and Abel but still was able to safejump their reversals (EX sky fall and EX bird kick) even though Sagat requires a delayed jump in because he wakes up slower than normal. This example was enough to convince me that even if Abel/Chun-li wake up a bit faster than normal, it doesn’t really matter much since you can still safejump their reversals with a normally timed jump-in attack.
I pm’d Rich awhile back on wakeup times and his and your list are nearly 100% identical. Only characters he mentioned to having faster wakeups were Ibuki and Guy and it was only by one frame but he was unsure if it really was 1 frame or regular.
Timing and inputs for OS
I’ve been trying to nail the timing for setting up safe jumps with Akuma, in order to try out some option selects. My question is two fold:
a) When exactly do you input the commands for the option selects? Is it after you throw out attack that sets up the safe jump, or is it before it lands?
and
b) What is the best knockdown to use to initiate a safe jump/OS attempt? forward throw? sweep? demon palm?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated; I have been trying to learn how to OS for quite some time.
Thanks.
a) You time the option select to be inputted at the time where your first move would normally hit.
b) I would say sweep but i think any untechable knockdown is good for OS.
Thanks for the info! Just a quick question, to further elaborate on your point a):
When you say “You time the option select to be inputted at the time where your first move would normally hit,” does that mean my move FIRST has to hit and then I input the move immediately? Meaning, for a safe jump/ OS srk, I would do the safe jump and when it hits?and by hit I mean if my opponent does nothing, it will hit him? I input the srk motion immediately after, therefore, if he blocks the attack, nothing comes out; if he back dashes, he eats the SRK, and for characters like Honda and Bison, any horizontal move get stuffed by the SRK.
I would say the best timing to input an OS with a jump-in attack is right before it actually combos with the jump in attack (i.e doing a late option select), because if you do it that way, you’ll be able to block most reversals (as discussed earlier in this thread), for example option selecting a sweep with a meaty jump-in on Chun, if you input the sweep as an early OS, you’ll beat her backdash but will still eat the ex bird kick reversal, on the other hand if you input the option select as late as possible, like right before it’ll combo with the jump-in, you’ll beat her back dash and be able to block her reversal.
As for which knockdowns are good, forward throw is probably the easiest since you have a fixed timing of forward throw x 2 dashes against most of the cast depending on their wakeup timing, most of Akuma’s knockdowns are good except for back throw and super IIRC (maybe U2 as well, but I’ve barely ever used that ultra so I wouldn’t know).
Thanks for the detailed answer; you shed plenty of light on the issue for me. With the forward throw x 2 dashes, does it matter if you use a normal jump in attack or demon flip? If it is the demon flip, I assume it would be MK, correct?
No problem man, yes you can safe jump many reversals using either a jump-in attack or MK DF palm (which can be option selected as well) after the forward throw x 2 dashes. The advantage of using the DF palm is that it breaks super armor reversals such as Rog’s EX dashes and punishes people who think they’re smart trying to escape Akuma’s vortex by focus dashing on wake up after every knockdown.
Great! I usually use the 2x dash, and then MK demon flip kick; I never thought to use the palm (for the reasons you specified.)
I was also under the impression that OS’s can only be done during a precise period of time, but it seems that you can do early OS’s and late OS’s. Thanks once again for the info.
Has anyone tried MK tatsu OS vs Dictator? Beats teleports, ex psycho crusher, trades with ex scissors, whiffs vs devils reverse etc.
^^i can never get it to punish EX crusher, but that’s my timing,
Is there a decent OS to punish backdashes? at the moment anyone who backdashes on wakeup i just can’t do anything against. I can if i get an untechable knockdown, but i mean on the occasions i don’t get the benefit of a jump in.
There’s always the jab/sweep OS.
In the fwd throw case if you do the 2 dashes perfectly (without a pause in between) you will get it.
Also what laughter said plus the close s.lk/rh OS
Sorry for being ignorant, how is that performed? I’ve never heard of it… You perform a sweep during jabs?
& that? Sorry,