You can OS off everything in this game, but not everyone OS is useful.
It seems practical enough. Catches backdashes, shoto cr.mk. Depending on what you OS it could either put you in position to punish or punish reversals directly, that were normally out of reach.
I cant do cross up tatsu OS U1 to save my life
Not saying it isn’t. Just making the statement that OS is a mechanic of the engine and works for every move, just many moves don’t have a useful application.
He pretty much means, you could do, for example, a cr.mk with cr.fp OS if you wanted, but whats the profit?
I want to start playing around with making my own setups but need to know all the relevant information first. As far as i know i’d need the following:
Untechable Knockdown Advantage:
Sweep - (+45)
Fwd Throw - (+72)
Back Throw - (+34)
Palm -
Super -
Ultra 1 - (+58)
Ultra 2 -
Can someone knowledgable be so kind as to fill in the blanks/ correct any misinformation?
Frame Data:
Normals
Specials
Dashes
Jumps
Same again: The frame data for normals & specials is readily available at numerous places. Could someone with the knowledge put up the data for Akumas dashes & Jumps, please?
Forest,
While digging around (after a previous similar post) I found jump and dash buried at:
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV/Original_Wiki_Page
Dash:
Character Toward Dash Distance Backdash Distance Invincible Grounded Airborn
Akuma 18 1.0 25 0.9 1~8 9,19~25 10~18
Jump:
Character Total Startup Airborne Recovery
Akuma 44 4 36 4
Regarding moves advantage:
I think palm may be dependent on target character height.
I’m really interested in total frames of demon flip, if they’re all the same frame count, and if it/they are the same count as a jump (assuming palm whiff).
I tried frapsing and checking out the hitbox videos but the trouble I ran into was distinguishing the first and last frames of jumping/DF from transitional animation from/to neutral/crouching. It was pretty late and after beer, so maybe a re-look might prove useful.
Is there some documentation anyone has read anywhere that actually notes these, or can someone interpret what the frame data here means in terms of a total frame count for a palm whiff?
Hyakki Gousho H 110 200 0/30 - 27+8 2 4 - -
I’m a big fan of the idea of making sure we have a clear set of ‘setup’ building blocks.
HK DF palm must match or at least be super close to the total frames of a normal jump-in, the reason why I think that is because after a DF throw and immediately backdash (25 frames), you can safejump only 5 frame reversals (characters with normal wakeup time) whether you safejumped from close range in the corner with j.hk or in midscreen from far away with HK DF palm.
I think jump/mk df/hk df palm have the exact same frames else u would be able to safejump with the same setups with those 3 options.
If there was a situation for that OS it would be a viable tactic. This is very much viable.
Its a delayed timing, not like your regular SJOS.
I remember A LONG time ago back when Rich Nguyen use to post in here, he said something along the lines of, Demonflip had 1 extra airborne frame.
Ok got some Sagat setups since the old ones keep trading.
1 - forward throw dashx2 mk df early dive kick (beats LP/MP TU, avoids others)
2 - forward throw cr mp dashx1 hk df palm (safe jump, not frame perfect if done as fast as possible will whiff)
are you sure about #1. what if they delay uppercut?
I couldn’t get a delayed TU to trade. If you delay too much the dive kick is blocked.
Hey new to Akuma here, I am wondering what the guaranteed safe jumps are against normal wakeup times. Does Akuma have easy things to mark time like other characters or do you just have to feel it out? So far I have only been playing footsies and keepaway so I need to develop my vortex.
Also, does Demon Flip have different timing than say a cross-up jumpin on wakeup or does it work the same way?
Most of the safe jumps from a sweep are documented in the matchup thread.
You can activate the dive kick from a demonflp at three different points: Immediate - press the kick ASAP and Akuma dives on the first available frame . Delayed - Press the kick as late as possible to do a very delayed kick right before landing. In the middle - generally the most use dive kick, you press the kick as the flip is descending.
Each is useful and generally used in a specific setup.
HALLELUJAH!!! Tokido would be proud!
Don’t know if it already existed, but I found a very dirty little setup to open up the opponent. Works especially well on characters with extended lower hitboxes like Rose, Chun, Dictator, etc. You can use it after a forward throw, but also without a prior knockdown, though it’s riskier to use.
- Land a f.throw or U2
2.Walk forward to the right distance Jump forward and aim a LP Air Fireball exactly at their feet. - HK DF palm whiff to crossover
After that you can:
- Hit low
- Overhead. The fireball’s hitstun guarantees enough hitstun for the overhead to combo from the fireball, but I don’t know if the blockstring is tight as well, need to test that out.
It’s tough to block, because the opponent has to press backwards and forward in quick succession.
They can’t throw you when you land behind them because they’ll be in blockstun from the fireball and charge characters will lose their charge. As soon as the opponent blocks the fireball he is forced to guess wether you hit high or low.
To learn the exact distance, go to training mode and leave you opponent where he is, move back until Akuma’s the tip of akuma’s front foot is 14-18 ‘miniblocks’ away from the central red line. The amount of leniency you have between the ‘miniblocks’ depends on how far the hurtbox of the opponents’ feet extend.
Try it out and let me know what you think!
hm ??
This seems very plausible, but i really need to see it in action. I don’t see how the air lp fireball can leave them in block-stun long enough for a mix up, especially of his forward throw.
I just tested this and this setup does not work as you describe. There is simply not enough frame advantage from the forward throw or the air fireball to setup any sort of tight or safe pressure. I suggest you re-test to confirm if you can escape or punish the setup.
[media=youtube]ez6zaOW7f34[/media]
This is not the tightest timing I managed to achieve, but it’s the only one I recorded. Won’t have access to my PC either untill tuesday. I did perform a timing though, where I hit the fireball, crossed over and performed a completely tight blockstring. Recorded it, tried to mash through it and failed, so it’s possible. However, this might really have depended on the opponent’s lower hotbox, so I might be wrong about this. I’ll test it more on tuesday.
As you can see, in the timing viewable in this video Ryu is holding back as soon as Akuma throws Ryu, but the LP Zanku’s “movement preventing box” prevents Ryu from walking back. The opponent could of course dash backwards to escape this setup, but a backwards dash can be further attacked with the HK demon flip.
More interestingly, THIS FB (0:51) IS HITS AS A CROSSUP LOL!!! With the timing showed in this video, Akuma has already moved behind Ryu when the FB hits, so when Ryu tried to block the FB regurarly, it still hit him from the front, but as a crossup. This makes it difficult to block the FB in the first place. Akuma lands just inside or outside Ryu’s sweep range though, so the Ryu player needs to be conditioned to block.
This can be avoided by blocking everything low from the start, since the hurtboxes get wider doing that and Akuma gets less time to flip over his opponent, but this also improves Akuma’s chances of hitting actually hitting the opponent with the Zanku in the first place.
However, since the FB can turn out to be a crossup, here’s where it could get really dirty. If you time the FB to be a crossup, but turn the DF into a Dive Kick, the FB needs to be blocked as a crossup and (depending on the character), the Dive Kick needs to be blocked regularly. On some characters, the Dive Kick needs to be blocked as as crossup as well, but it’s really ambiguous, since the FB pushback pushes you into the Dive Kick. This I really need to test more though, so take this with a grain of salt.
It might not even be in Akuma’s best interest to time it as a true blockstring. Doesn’t that make the opponent block automatically no matter how you hit them?
This setup is in now way a airtight, but a nice little gimmick that should work nicely after conditioning the opponent to block your setups.