Didn’t read your post, but about the video, the setup is obviously far from being meaty, why wouldn’t the opponent just jump out (possibly even hitting Akuma in the air with a normal)?
I explained this a little. It’s definitely not meaty neither a safe setup and never claimed it is. However, they can’t walk out of it, since the FB’s “movement preventing hitbox” prevents you from doing so.
They can dash out of it as well, but I doubt the opponents first reaction would be to jump towards you. jumping back will definitely escape it though. It’s only good as soon as the opponent decides to block the FB and nothing more, since the FB can be timed to crossup.
One way to condition the opponent to block the fireball rather than to jump out is to do a MP zanku first a couple of times. You don’t need to land close and hits meaty. If they think you’ll throw the MP again, you throw the LP and start this setup.
This is all Theory Fighter though, never tested it in a real match, but intend to do so this week to see the results.
That setup auto loses to backdash or DP. Record the computer doing that setup and then try to escape or punish. It simply doesn’t work. Unless the fireball is meaty it can be punished or escaped.
I was going through the posts to find an answer to this but I don’t think I found any info on it. In any case I was messing around with the deejay unblockable (the f.mp one) last night and I seem to have had it working because each way I blocked while standing he got hit.
One weird thing though, and this leads me to believe I didn’t do it right, is if i did some weird wiggling with the stick from down back it would block the j.mk. Anyone got any thoughts on this? I probably should’ve recorded a video. Also when I would crouch down back the j.mk would whiff. Is that supposed to happen? It works for standing so I don’t know what I’m doing wrong…
The whiff is probably normal as I already read the same for some other corner setups around here.
This isn’t really AE 2012 specific, nor character specific that I am aware of, but I’m not sure if any other thread is better for this question.
What exactly is the timing on the crossup fireball after the Ultra Demon? I’ve seen it in videos countless times, but I’ve seen it done in very different ways. I’ve seen someone jab once or twice before doing it, I’ve seen people taking a slight step back before doing it and I’ve seen people simply standing there and then going directly into it after a second or two. I have tried all of these methods and have never ever been able to successfully land it. Yet I have absolutely zero issues landing it after the DF palm or DF throw. I know that “training mode” is going to be suggested, but I have to be missing something specific with it, because I just cannot get the timing on it. Either the fireball lands at their feet, or it massively misses behind them. And yes, I’ve tried to vary my timing, but it still comes out the same.
There is nothing special about it, you just need to be good at executing the crossup fireball. I personally take a step back and release the fireball mid way up.
Finally 2012 is out for pc (lol). Btw is there a new safejump setup like the old dashx2 j.hk after a throw for characters like fei? It’s probably a palm setup now I’m guessing for the safejump.
Just wondering because I couldn’t find something in the first post. Great compilation also.
Fei’s flame kicks are 5fs, right? Normal Safe jump rules (Dash x 2, J. HK) apply on him unless he wakes up a frame faster after fwd throw…
x2 dashes j.hk only safejumps 7 frame and slower reversals vs characters who wakeup normally like Fei, x2 dashes j.hk safejumped 5f reversals vs characters with normal wakeup time Before the v2012 nerf only.
Seth wakes up a frame slower after forward throw and has a 5f DP, you still can’t safejump it with x2dashes j.hk, only characters who wakeup 2 frames slower with 5f reversals (like Cammy and her Canon Spike) can be safejumped with the setup now after the throw nerf.
You can however empty jump 5f reversals after x2dashes and block the reversal in time vs characters who wakeup normally, so they can’t throw it out there expecting it to hit every time. There’s x-up tatsu which works vs a lot of reversals and of course DF dive kick setups that specially work well to fully stuff Fei’s normal flame kicks for a full combo.
You can also use x1 dash and walk slightly then DF palm for a safejump vs 4f and slower reversals in the game (excluding some hit invincible throw reversals like Abel’s EX TT or Gief’s EX SPD), this is pretty difficult to be 100% consistent with since it requires manual timing.
I see… I tried looking for the wakeup times of characters after Akuma’s fwd throw (I know someone posted it somewhere on this forum) but couldnt’ find it. But then, how come we can safe jump Guile’s Flash Kicks (4fs) with Dash x 2, j.HK after fwd throw? Does that mean he wakes up slower? But that would mean he wakes up 3 frames slower, could that be? Same thing with DeeJay where Dash x 2, empty jump is safe against his reversal EX Jacknife (also 4fs) though, technically, empty jumping is not safe if you’re not sticking a meaty normal into their startup frames as I understand it…
I really need to see that list of wakeup times to start getting some safe setups down against certain characters. I wish my SSF4 AE mook on my mobile had this info along with mentions of which moves have invincibility on startup…
I posted that list a long time ago, it’s also on the first page of this thread:
So far the list seems accurate and I couldn’t find any additional abnormal wakeup times or heard of any on these forums. As I mentioned in that post some characters do have additional invincibility frames when leaving the stick on neutral when they wakeup which this list doesn’t cover, reported neutral stance whiffs I heard so far are by Gen, Adon, Fuerte and Guy (still not sure if Yang’s is fully fixed by now or not), I personally had some weird neutral whiffs vs Chun at rare occasions too.
As for the setups you mentioned:
Guile: He wakes up normally and you can’t safejump him with x2dashes j.hk, you can’t even empty jump it after x2 dashes.
Deejay: He wakes up 2 frames slower after forward throw so you can empty jump his 4f EX reversal, empty jumping invincible 4 frame reversals after x2 dashes works if a character wakes up a frame slower or more after forward throw (i.e Dudley and his 4f EX JU).
Yun will get countered if he tries to do his up kicks right away, but it will escape or counter the DFK 100% with a delay (and that’s if Akuma delays too).
For Ken, I am only having luck using the F.throw > dash x2 mk DFK against mashing. I’ve also tried the single dash > small step > hk DFK with varying results that usually destroys mashing (but who wants to learn setups that are only good against bad players?).
The one setup that I do like though that seems relatively “good” is this:
cl.hp > lk tatsu > lp shoryu > FADC > lp shaku > instant hk DFK. You have enough time to tell if it’s going to hit or not (they quick rise or delay). If they delay, you’ll know as you touch down and you’re in a good spot to cross up fireball right away. It eats two bars, but it’s still a lot more reliable than anything else I’ve seen listed so far. If Ken delays, he can hit you with 1-2 hits of his super, or 1-2 hits of U2. In both cases it’s in your favor unless those hits would have put you close to death or killed you since the damage is pretty small for the meter.
U1 will only hit or not depending on the timing of your fireball (I can’t get U1 to hit off of a quick rise). When it hits though, it’s only 2 hits, and not much damage at all.
Hey all. Is there anyone who we cannot safe-jump from fwd throw xx dash (2)? I know the frame data specifics are listed on page one but I was hoping someone would make my life easier. 
So much to learn with this character, sheesh!
Like Metallicaband said above, and if I understand it correctly, anyone with a 3 fs reversal (like Ryu, Ken, Akuma…) cannot be safe jumped after fwd throw. You can empty jump 5fs reversal characters that wake up normally or characters with 4 fs reversal that wake up 1 fs slower after fwd throw. You can safe jump 6 fs (or slower charcters) or characters with 4-5 fs reversals that wake up 2 fs slower after fwd throw.
In essence; Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Guile you shouldn’t be able to safe jump. Go for cross-up tactics instead or one of their known setups like Dash x 1, slight step, HK DF Kick to stuff their reversal DPs.
It could be handy to retrieve the frame advantage number after f.throw.
Work in progress
[S]Set ups[/S] Combos that lead to st:hk: follow up
First I tried to find the range where st:hk: connect after a low forward xx fireball FADC, see the numbers in the list are range in “small training stage squares”, feet to feet. Then, I looked after a point blank combo to put me in that range, the result is the point blank combos you can see here.
I’ll try to find more setups like cross up palm whiff later.
-------------------------
Abel : Imune
Boxer : 2 (very tight)
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk: (very hard)[/INDENT]
Dhalsim : 5 ~ 6
[INDENT=1]cr:mp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Dudley : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Cammy : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Chun Li : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Cody : 2 ~ 4
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
C.Viper : 0 ~ 2
[INDENT=1]cr:mp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk: (very hard)[/INDENT]
Fei long : 0 ~ -1.5 (yeah Fei got a unfair hitbox…)
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Gouken : 2 ~ 3
cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:
Guile : 1 ~ 3
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Honda - 0 ~ -2
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Ibuki : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Juri : 8 ~ 9 (to the toes that touch the ground)
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Makoto : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: ct:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
M. Bison : 0 ~ -2
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mp: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk: (fails if light fireball)[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]cr:mp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]• Crouching[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]cr:mp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]• Cross up (crouch)[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]j:mk:, cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]• Cross up (stand)[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]j:mk:, cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Rose : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk: (works after cross up palm whiff)[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]cr:mp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mp: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk: (this one is handy)[/INDENT]
Rufus : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
Rufus : ?
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Ryu : 1 ~ 3
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Sakura : 1 ~ -1
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Sagat : Imune
Seth : 6 ~ 5
[INDENT=1]cr:mp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Vega : 1 ~ -2
[INDENT=1]cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:lp: cr:mk: xx Fireball FADC, fs:hk:[/INDENT]
Zangief : Imune
-------------------------
I can’t get the new ryu unblockable. The f.throw, c.mk,clk into j.hk. The j.hk keeps whiffing. It never connects at all.
It’s j.mk
Oh. Someone needs to correct the setup in the first post then lol.