What if he had denjin, but each hit counted for damage scaling?
I’d rather have a Super with a unique property added to it rather than one that deals negligible damage. If the Denjin Gohadouken were blockable, I think it would be a viable Super, seeing as Supers in this game don’t deal much damage in comparison to the EX moves and FADC combos, especially the ones Akuma has available. By making it blockable, it wouldn’t be an overpowered nearly 100% effective offensive tactic against downed opponents and it would give opponents something else to think about surrounding the wakeup game.
^I don’t know why more people don’t use akuma’s super…It’s zero frame guaranteed 35% on most of the cast and kara is realllllly easy in this game. Plus you can use it as an anti string move if desperate. Zero Fucking Frame super…
Yes sir I did, I had this one a while back when I was goofing around with Akuma but I’m serious about learning him now so he gets the avatar spot. Akuma is moving up in the world!!! :smokin:
its simple why they dont use it
because you can get nearly the same dmg with only losing 2 bars
nearly every fadc combo of akuma do 400 dmg or more
thats why ppl use there ex meter more then the super cause the waste of the whole meter
for 400 dmg is a waste
Difficult to connect, can be predictable after awhile. Shenanigans depedent
:bluu: it would suck igneous rocks…
in 3S charging ryu’s denjin adds stun, hits, and piss damage but no scaling there.
with dmg scaling
longer charge=longer stun=more hits=less dmg in remaining combo
that is a pretty :lame: Super or Ultra
as said before… it really doesn’t suit Akuma to taze his foe with his killer intent as that’s essentially what Ryu is doing story and gameplay wise.
It’s not a waste. It does more damage than your average super in this game, there are many setups to land it, and it punishes a lot of moves that are otherwise unpunishable.
The fact that people don’t use it often doesn’t have anything to do with it being a bad super, more that Akuma has so many other effective uses of meter that you won’t often find yourself with full meter to use the super.
If in any and every given situation, you would be better off using your ex meter to generate more damage at a significantly higher percentage of success and lower risk of wiff or punish than using your Super, then the Super is not good. It’s because of the vast difference between the damage potential of the super and the damage potential of fadc and ex combos which makes the Akuma’s current super useless.
damn… well, put trag.
Yeah, that sure would change things if that were the case, but it’s simply not true. First off, when you do a FADC combo for 400+ damage, that doesn’t mean that the FADC is worth 400+ damage. Because generally, you could have gotten a pretty hefty combo for no meter at all. The FADC is only worth the difference in damage versus what you can get without it.
For example your standard BnB where you end with LP srk instead and FADC to red fb, the FADC is only worth a measly 50 damage. The largest combo difference you get in a practical situation, the FADC buys you 120 more than you can get without meter. So at best, the value of FADC is 60 damage per stock.
In comparison, there are several situations where you can punish with super, but without meter you don’t get to punish at all (refer to my thread to see these). In that case you are getting 330 damage for four stocks, that’s over 80 damage per stock.
Even more significant, there are situations where it can keep YOU from taking damage. For example, you get a cr.RH focus absorbed and you don’t have ultra yet. Either you don’t use super and you eat a huge crumple combo. Or you cancel to super and instead HE’S eating the damage. In that case, super is probably worth 150 damage per stock or more, because it is both doing damage to him and keeping him from doing damage to you.
Now, am I saying super is better? No, because your opportunity to take advantage of EXes and FADCs is much much more common. But your analysis and conclusion that it’s a bad super are off. The reason you don’t see a lot of supers is as I said: people generally don’t have meter for it when the opportunity arises. It’s not worth specifically saving your meter to do super when there’s other opportunities to use it coming up. But IF you had the meter, and the right situation comes along, it would be folly not to use the super.
i never said that his super is bad and i know that you can punish a lot if things
and that is nearly a 100 % catch chance
but a lot of players burn there meter for ex moves
full screen demon flip ex air fireball i dont think somebody want take use of it
why top level players dont use it ??
i have never seen (ok JR is the only exeption) a top player that use the super
at top lvl play you aren’t getting free trips and free bnb combos every 3 seconds because the opponents don’t suck so when you have a chance to turn a simple c.mk, FB poke into a c.mk, FB FADC, HK, c.mp, lk. tatsu, SRK (trip…whatever)… then you are gonna be using 2 bars for that.
Just because someone has really good EX moves doesn’t make the super suck. I know there have been plenty of times where EXACTLY what MuKen was saying happened without me having a ultra yet and I was saved from a 500+ damage combo. Its just he has SUCH good EX option to help him get into his rhythm or to add stun/damage. And of course there are FADC safety fades off blocked SRK etc etc etc… its just hard to sit there with akuma and hold a full meter and not use something… even if its something seemingly silly like FADC off a blocked FB into a grapple.
Honestly that is how I feel a character and their meter SHOULD be played. It feels silly to play with someone like Sim or at times ryu and just hold onto the super for 30 seconds or an entire round waiting for a combo to come up.
Thats why high lvl ppl don’t use it often. The other reason being that kara gives it a little more range for insta grab, but in higher lvl play its hard to get in close enough to get it at even that kara range because the footsie and spacing is better to the point that its hard to get a kara demon off on anything but a tick kara or an empty jump in/demon flip (or a special punish where a BnB off HP wouldn’t work instead).
Unlike someone like ryu… akuma’s super can’t be comboed so its silly to wait for an opening. That coupled with ppl’s ability to only think about so many things at once makes it hard to utilize it EVERY time it could have come in handy. (and hell… usually I only get my bar up to full if the opponent stinks so I don’t need to bother with it or if its a fireball war where there are better meter options) .
and yea… FADC in this game are rather weak… only time it really feels worth it for akuma is 1.You randomly land a SRK (lp lets say) and want extra damage. 2. You just KNOW that extra stun would put them into stun 3. You feel like 50 is fine cuz ur in a fireball war and have meter to burn that you’ll just get right back. 4. You land a poke outside of lk. tatsu range and combo it into a BnB with a FADC.
On topic though… If his Ultra isn’t given 1 frame grabbing like his super than I don’t want his super changed… nor do I think they’ll change anyone’s super/ultra… just give a new one.
What I really wonder is what they’ll do about gen… does he get 4 ultras now? lol.
I like Akuma’s super just for the fact it is so easy (Relatively speaking) to land. The problem with people not using it isn’t going to change unless his EX moves get nerfed.
I milk Ryu’s cheesy EX Fireball 3 times more than any EX with Akuma, all the stuff about his great EXs and how they would instead need to be nerfed is a myth. They are just alright, at best you can say they’re good.
If you exclude Sakura and possibly Gouken, he has the slowest EX Fireball in the game. EX Shoryuken is rarely useful because 6 invincibility frames is most often enough, EX Red fireball is only useful in combos, EX Tatsu is alright and offers some nice extra tick mixups and is useful as a combo tool near the corner.
EX Air Tatsu is just a stalling tool, he has those already and the only deal with this is it stalls longest, making it an ideal option in like… 2 situations.
The two tieing for best are EX air fireball and EX Demon Flip. EX air fireball covers a larger area than normal and offensively helps pin down the opponent more to help set a mixup with more relative safety. EX Demon Flip is just a slow Demon Flip you can do from full screen, that’s it. (it moves fast but takes a long time to cross the field) It gives you an extra threat you can have in a fireball exchange but prediction must be very pre-emptive and an assured read; you could just as easily EX Flip right into death.
You can use this early read on them more safely with a Fierce Red fireball.
FADCs are different and their ultility is something Akuma needs more frequently.
The problem I currently have with the Super is that it does not not do enough damage for its effective range. It does not deal more damage than the average Super, here are some of the ranges for Super damage figures on varying characters:
280 - Gen [Mantis] (juggles for at least 380)
300 - Ryu
300 - Rose
330 - Rufus
335 - Abel
340 - Chun Li
345 - Balrog
345 - Gouken
350 - Dhalsim
350 - Seth
380 - Sakura
400 - Honda
400 - Fei Long
400 - Ken
400 - Cammy
500 - Zangief
Without the same combo ability, Akuma’s shares ultility most with Zangief’s for such large spanning point-blank punishment and offensive threat. In terms of punishment it’s quite specialist (needs to be) but certainly not its own elite.
The effective range is that of a ground throw and like Zangief’s requires a command that must take a short time while masked by a buffer with the opponent kept at neutral frames. While you’re at this range, the opponent should be giving you things to be thinking about in the meantime.
I’m not looking to pretend it’s as hard to get in and set up a Super as it is for Zangief, but for me the only reason this shouldn’t do a fair chunk more damage is the given application against focuses. I would still like to see a small increase in its damage or perhaps its effective range before I put more concentration in trying to set this up or land it in a close match.
That’s not true. EX red is great for chip (does more chip than regular Red) and is useful for pressure in the corner.
You can also use it to bait stuff like ex green hand on wake up.
EX tatsu is also good for combo on crouched opponents. It does good damage and stun.
However the most widely used application of EX tatsu is as an anti throw tech punish. For players who like to throw tech alot you can jab then ex tatsu and it beats the throw tech.
That’s what I meant with the tick mixups. You get good damage and odds of success for low risk; price is you throw them across the screen with no follow-up momentum. You can alternatively fish for techs with normals as a counter hit setup.
Baiting on Zangief’s wakeup can also be done with an LP Red fireball, the EX just buys you some chip insurance in case he didn’t take the bait and blocked.
It’s very difficult to stop techs with normals if they are spamming the tech input. Generally you will just get hit out of your normal.
That is just one example. There are so many places where the EX red is very useful. For Example knocking Ryu down who has little health and ultra. If you EX red him out of footsweep range he won’t be able to ultra you on wakeup. Inbe lost to Momochi Ryu in this scenario because he used a standard red.
Against Blanka who is low on health but has EX stock. If you knock him down and EX red you can DP his ballroll.
The EX red is good because it’s better chip than the standard red and has the same recovery as the jab red. This makes it a dangerous tool when the opponent is low on health.
Make no mistake, all of Akuma’s EX moves are very good, however like much of his toolset, they are situational.
Also, if you make opp block EX red when they are in the corner, you can walk in right behind it and pressure them.
I think I mentioned that above.
However to expand a few things I do off a blocked ex red is demon flip behind, sweep or standing roundhouse. (if it’s a tall character)
Generally each of these options leads to damage and a knockdown.