"Ain't my style!" Paul General Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
541

Hey guys. Before I go concentrate in studying, I wanted to drop last bit of lil info that I found yesterday:

  1. Paul’s EX Mortar is 23f start-up! (I compared this by doing whiff normal jump EX mortar against Lei doing whiff normal jump MP Palm. Lei’s MP Palm, according to my research, is 24f start-up, and his jump is 1f faster than Paul’s, so if the moves’ start-ups were the same, Lei should’ve CHed Paul. But they trade!)
  2. Paul’s EX Smasher is 11f start-up! (Did the same thing except it was Ryu with his EX hadouken. Now, I again confirmed that EX Hadouken had faster start-up than LK Joudan or non-EX hadouken using the above method. This should trade since they should have the same start-up, but EX Smasher CHs Ryu! The meaning of this is that Paul’s EX Smasher should have 11f start-up)

Now, there are many more things wrong such as Ryu’s EX Joudan having 15f instead of 16f start-up and Sagat’s EX knee having 8f instead of 9f start-up, but they’re not Paul related unfortunately.

I’m later going to see if EX Raze indeed is 15f start-up like they said it would be.

542

Was able to Punish with Paul EX Smasher
Ogre’s Owl Hunt (-11), Rolento Super (-11), Heihachi’s cl.hp (-11), Chun Li’s LP Kioken (-11), Julia’s f.mp > mk (-11).

Was NOT able to Punish with Paul EX Smasher:
King’s Water Kick (-11), MK Tiger Knee (-11), Poisons f.mp (-11),

In all cases I couldn’t punish with Bison’s LK (11F) Scissors Kick either.
Something is way off with the reversal timing too, since sometimes it doesn’t hit beside the “REVERSAL” sign appearing.

So I think it’s 11F start up too. I tested this yesterday, but against MK Tiger Knee and thought it was 12F therefore.

This annoys me so hard, I’m gonna wait with testing EX Mortar until later.
Seriously, screw this game and official guide >_>

543

@Zukuu

I also wanted to tag Paul with Cody, but he wasn’t in the game. I first tagged Paul with King and Law, and eventho I was getting good results, I couldn’t play like I wanted to because I had too many execution errors with King. I’d be getting qcb+punch when I’m trying to hitconfirm and specials in stead of AA when they jump at me. It was simply too frustrating.
I didn’t play SFxTK that often anymore, because of all the BS that was going on after a while (jab x timeout), and since Guile is my main in AE, I chose him to be Paul his new partner. That way I didn’t have to go to training and figure everything out.

I finally have Cody in SFxTK, and I kinda agree, he does feel off. He’s not the same as in AE, his ruffian kicks seem different, his rocks seem different, his flow feels different. The only thing that stayed the same are his Air attacks tbh.
I still play him like in AE, but it’s definitely not the same, some normals seem to have a different startup and frame (dis)advantage than AE etc.

With Guile I always use cr.MK ~ st.HK when I see them either walking forward, standing, neutral jumping or recovering from a normal. So It doesn’t happen that often that my boost chains get blocked.

I personally like playing against Cammy, I hate her in AE tho >.<.
I can move pretty freely in SFxTK and don’t have to rely on my DB charge to deal damage, I also don’t have to deal with unblockables or vortex, so that all favors me now.

What I do with Guile after a Scissor Tag cancel are usually one of the following combos:
~ f.HK, cr.MK x st.HK
~ f.HK, cr.HK (for the hard knockdown)
~ f.HK, cr.MP x Flashkick (Really hard cause u need to be pretty close to the opponent)
~ f.HK, cr.MP, cr.MP x Flashkick (works only in the corner)
I used to do Jump HK, f.HK, cr.MK x st.HK in 2012, but for some reason that combo doesn’t work anymore.

I have a xbox, but I don’t play on it cause I don’t have games, xbox live, a converter and last but not least, interest ^^’

That’s one hell of a picture :wink:

EDIT: Btw, another great way of dealing GREAT damage with Guile is, Jump HP/HK, f.HK, st.MP x st.HP x Super. It’s so easy to hitconfirm and it deals roughly 500 damage.

544

I recorded some footage and did some frame count work on start ups.

I found a strange behavior that might explain why so many EX moves have +1F of start up listed in the guide.
I recorded some footage and checked the start up for all of Paul’s moves. In the course of this, I checked other characters as well, to see whether this theory is true or not.
When you record EX Charge moves (e.g. EX Tiger Knee, EX Phoenix Smasher etc) [not as in "charging the normal version to EX, but inputting DP + KK, or QCF + PP], you have additional frames of animation. EX Phoenix Smasher has from the input to the actual hit 16F of animation, but only 11F of start up (listed as 12F in the guide). Now, when you CANCEL that move off a normal, you don’t have these additional frames, making counting the actual start up easier. HOWEVER, it seems that for almost ALL specials you have 1F of additional animation (or actual start up?) if you cancel it off a normal move, meaning Raze (19F start up), has 20F from first cancel frame to the actual hit. HOWEVER the second, this doesn’t seem to affect ANY PROJECTILE nor chain combos and some other specials. I don’t know why the guide lists wrong numbers for either of those. It doesn’t seem to affect a few specials. For instance, EX Shoryuken and EX Tatsumaki have 4F and 12F of start up canceled or not, where as all Joudan Kicks have 1F less start up\animation when done raw.

All is highly speculative and I only spot tested.

Now for Paul:
-First off, all far, close, crouching and unique normals are correct.

  • j.hk which is supposed to have 10F startup has 13F instead! Not only has j.hp a better hit\hurt box, it’s also 3F faster. Will remove that move from my mind.
    -All normal versions of the specials are correct. MP sway seems to have a freeze Frame before it hits, otherwise it would have 38F start up instead of 37F (it does seem to be a freeze frame tho).
    -EX Mortar has indeed 23F start up (not 24F)
    -EX Raze has 14F start up (not 15F)
    -EX Sway has 30F (instead of 31F)
    -EX Shredder and all other versions are confirmed to have 6F (so -1F for EX Shredder)
    -As explained above, EX Smasher has canceled from a normal has 12F start up animation, which leaves me to believe that it has indeed 11F start up (as tested against various -11F specials). However, I wasn’t able to punish King’s Water Kick (-11), MK Tiger Knee (-11), Poisons f.mp (-11), so either those are safer, or it has 12F start up and these are more unsafe since I was able to reversal them: Ogre’s Owl Hunt (-11), Rolento Super (-11), Heihachi’s cl.hp (-11), Chun Li’s LP Kioken (-11), Julia’s f.mp > mk (-11).

Guile:
-EX Flash Kick is 5F (instead of 6 - tho that was already known)
-EX Boom is 10F instead of 11F
-Air Throw is 5F now

Ryu:
-EX Shoryuken 4F (-1F)
-EX Tatsu 12F (-1F)
-Ex Hadoken 12F (-1F)
-EX Jourdan 15F (-1F)

Sagat:
-EX TU is 3F (-1F)
-EX High Tiger 12F (-1F)
-EX Low Tiger 13F (-1F)
-EX TK is 9F when canceled from a normal (so it would be presumable -1F = 8F raw)

@Ralenzo
I’m looking forward to get some combos going then. Will check all of Guiles start up as well and finish the frame data for him in the next few days, so we can finish the combo thread then.

I do j.hk, c.mp, c.mp xx Flash Kick - seems way easier to time and does more damage.^^

edit:
-c.hp is -13 on block.
-ALL moves seem to have 1 less recovery then stated. I dunno why the frame data does that, I think they mean “the first frame you can do something”, rather then “the last frame you can’t do something”. Seems unreasonable to me tho.

545

how do peeps feel about Paul on point? Been runnin Paul/King, aka Team Damage with pretty good results, but see most people put him in da back

546

It works, but it’s wasted potential imo. Then again, King on point might be not optimal either, so it doesn’t matter much. Now, if you’d put Paul on point in a Guile x Paul team, I’d doubt your sanity. ^^

547

Yeah, that would be silly.

I manage my meter in such a way though that I don’t think I waste TOO much potential, can pretty much kill a character after the post king combo mix up - tag back into Paul, so it comes back around.

548

I am pretty sure that at least for Ryu’s MK/EX Joudan, they do not activate 1 frame slower when cancelled from a normal. I didn’t do frame counting, but I had used reversal method when Ryu did blocked jab into Joudan (fastest cancel). It was one of the methods I used to find out that EX Joudan had 15f start-up.

With playing the game from day 1, I had found out that there has been TWO reversal timings, and that the second reversal timing is actually 1f slower than the first one. No idea why this happens.

As for King’s Water Kick (-11), MK Tiger Knee (-11), Poisons f.mp (-11), I will test them when exams are over.

549

Well, as I said, it’s most likely an additional frame of animation rather then actual start up. could be the “cancel frame” or whatever. would seem weird if it would really alter the frame data.

I think I’ll adjust the frame data with 1F of less recovery for every move. Will test if it applies before tho.

550

Ah okay. I understood your post as an info that cancelling from a normal would make its start-up 1f longer. My apologies for misunderstanding.

I am confused by the whole recovery thing as well. I’ll test them as well later on by trying to whiff punish.

551

The forum will be down for a whole week. =/ we should all go to XBox SFxT board and create an own thread where we discuss Paul and other things^^

552

When? Like, tomorrow? I hope not, I’ll post my v.2013 CV tomorrow.

553

tonight.

554

Damnit! But I’m guessing it will fix the issues?

555

well they move to a new server. so I’d hope yes.

556

Excellent! Well, see you in a week I guess, it’s getting way too late.

Btw, totally landed three cross-up EX Mortars in the same combo for my CV.

557

Hey, Paul’s mp sway is not invulnerable to low attacks throughout the whole duration. Guile’s cr. mk is stuffing it somewhere in between his hop back and the start of his attack. Did you guys already know this?

558

Looking forward to it. then again, Y U NO POST COMBO DAMAGE?! :<

Yeah, I noticed, but it’s just in the very beginning and the low-crush kicks in before he fully backsways. Shouldn’t be a problem if you’re not dead close.

559

I try to make my videos art, and attack data would deter from that imo. Besides, most of my combos aren’t really practical anyways.

560

I was testing some OS with Paul/Guile in training today and I found some meaty setups that might be useful.

Meaty throw, will beat 3frame normals (tested on Chunli):

  • After a back throw, DF+HK, P, Throw
  • Front throw, LK Raze, Throw
  • Front throw, HK scissor kick, Throw (will whiff if you’re frame perfect)

Meaty cr.LK, used for OS:

  • Back throw, Jump HK, cr.LK

Meaty cl. HK, gives u a lot of time to hitconfirm and I was able to link cr.MK so it’s at least +7 on hit:

  • Front throw (corner), dash x 2, st.HK (will whiff if you’re frame perfect)
    You can probably come up with a meaty cl.HP too (more advantage on hit), I’ll try searching for one tomorrow.

I hope the wakeup animation is (unlike AE) the same for everyone, or else these setups are useless. I tested this on Chunli and Marduk, the throw setups will not beat Marduk his command throw, he’s throw invincible.