I tried searching for it and came up empty, with throws seemingly being important now is it known that Paul has a pretty decent kara throw with S.HP? On top of the extra range because Paul actually does the spin of HP I feel people are blocking it more than teching it. Plus if you ever screw up the kara (or sometimes fish for the counterhit on a premptive tech) you can LP Sway out of it.
If I recall correctly, I thought capcom deliberately made the decision to remove kara from their games, as far as I know there are no kara throws/specials in SFxTK.
S.hp Karathrow is in the game. tho, it’s not very good, and since throws have almost no range to begin with it’s even less useful.
For instance, one s.lp on block and you’re out of throw range already. here the kara throw hits, but just add a 2nd s.lp and it doesn’t hit either.
Oh okay, I remember Seth Killian saying in an interview that there are no kara throws or specials in SFxTK. It was something unintentional in SF4 or something.
Doubtful, since it was also in SF3. I’d say it’s more of a glitch that has become part of the system mechanics - like wave dash. AFAIR that was some sort of glitch too.
Since plink is possible, I’d imagine kara~ is also possible, otherwise throwing would be too difficult (have to exactly be LP + LK and not LP~LK or anything)
I could imagine Capcom trying to make all of characters’ normals to not move forward at frame 1 to give no range to kara throw, but I could guess they forgot about some of them.
Paul won his first tournament, and with Rufus no less !
People clearly didn’t know his mixups and shenanigans, he won very convincingly tbh.
EDIT: Grand finals starts at 2:10:00 http://nl.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/363502891?utm_campaign=archive_embed_click&utm_source=www.eventhubs.com
“Paul is not top tier, he is viable. That is a big difference”.
I think that statement that has been voiced during the stream is very true and the more I play the more I agree with it. Paul has big damage going for him, but if you see the overall spectrum, that’s about it. Now, I don’t want to downplay that he is quite decent, but he is really a special case, where he has damage but lacks a2a, mobility, subpar footsie and stuff like that. You can still be pressured pretty freely without meter. MK Shredder only hitting standing people makes it servery abusable for the opponent. It’s a great tool to have, but it’s no shoryuken by any means. All in all I’m quite happy with how he turned out tho. HK Shredder might be a bit too almighty in combos, but I can accept that. It’s still way to early for a final judgement of course, but I’m certain that he is in the first half of the tier list. I feel that he might be one of the best anchor characters in the game.
What are your thoughts?
I’m not even sure he’s at top half of the tier, but this is only because I honestly don’t know the other 40+ characters’ changes. He is certainly viable, and he has things going for him. Neutral game is still not something he is good at, but a smart use of LP Sway may change some things. I still have no certain feeling about how good he may be as an anchor, but I’ll explore him more thoroughly next week when I’m done with exams.
I can’t place him anywhere right now cause I have no information about other characters. I used to think Alisa sucked untill I played her a few days ago, so I definitely can’t say anything about tiers.
However, I do think that everything Paul lacked has been taking care off, his walkspeed and dash got buffed a lot, he’s not the fasted and most mobile character in the game, but I don’t think you can say that he LACKS mobility. His sway, forward dash, mortar punch, mountain raze can all be used to move around the field, and all of those things got buffed too, so he’s not lacking mobility imo.
His footsie game is not the best in the game, but since they buffed his normals and nerfed other character their normals like cr.lk of julia/cody, cr.mk of Ryu, his normals don’t look that bad anymore. Both his St.MK and cr.MK are now a very good poke and more usable to punish boost chains.
He still lacks A2A but to be honest, it’s not where he’s supposed to excel at anyway, he has a low jump arc so he’s jumping to get in, not to fight in the air.
He CAN be pressured but he’s definitely not that free anymore, I honestly am not afraid of pressure characters anymore, I think Guile has a harder time dealing with pressure than Paul now.
It’s a good thing Paul still has some minor flaws, cause if they buffed his A2A game, made his MK scissor kick hit crouchers like a DP, then I don’t see a reason to NOT put him in the top.
@street11 Good luck with your exams btw
So when you’re done, mine will start to slowly kick in. :<
Neutral Jumping is something Paul can’t deal with. Mortar might + on block, but the recovery is atrocious on a whiff, so that approach is very risky to close distance. Since his a2a suck godly, an approach by air is also nigh impossible. You really have to walk up and time LK Shredder or get lucky with s.hk.
Btw, I tried to use MP sway more often and had decent success with it. It’s highly character dependent tho. It’s very good vs characters that use Low\crouching Pressure as their main approach, like Lei, and the damage you get off it is not too cabby. In fact, I had never so many perfects than today (played roughly 100 matches), the damage output I have now from an opening is insane. I even like Guile now (again), since I can finally play decently online again on XBL. Had some almost offline-like matches today.
@Ralenzo
He is still slow and has slow normals. His backdash is one of the worst and his forward dash (while quick) has no distance. Raze has to be timed quiet strictly since the anti projectile frames kick not in from the beginning and it’s hard to hit with its 19F start up in time then. Don’t get me wrong, it’s tremendously better, but still a department where he is subpar.
Come on man, Paul his main normals are almost the same as the shotos.
Ken: cr.LP (4) cr.MP (6) cr.HP (6) cr.LK (3) cr.MK (5) st.LP (5) st.MP (6) st.MK (7)
Paul: cr.LP (4) cr.MP (5) cr.HP (6) cr.LK (5) cr.MK (7) st.LP (5) st.MP (6) st.MK (10)
Ryu: cr.LP (3) cr.MP (5) cr.HP (4) cr.LK (5) cr.MK (6) st.LP (4) st.MP (5) st.MK (8)
Yeah cr.MK and st.MK might be slower, but it also has more range so it makes sense doesn’t it. And like I’ve said before, boostchains have become more punishable now so u have an easier time punishing those things with st.MK.
I agree with you, his walkspeed is still slow, but considering he has more health than average and deals a ton of damage I think that’s justified.
I just compared Ryu and Paul their dashes and they travel almost the exact same distance, Ryu travels like 1 toe further. Also his front dash is 18 frames which is 1 frame slower than Paul. Both have a backdash of 27 frames, BUT Paul covers more distance. 1 Backdash with Ryu and my dummy (Paul) his cr.MP hits, 1 backdash with Paul and the dummy (Paul) his cr.MP whiffs.
So…Paul has a better front/back dash than the almighty Ryu, huh ?
Also u are not limited to use Raze against fireballs, u can also use it to escape vortex or cross ups. It doesn’t really matter whether he’s punishable on block (Raze) or whether he has a fair amount of recovery frames (Mortar Punch), because It doesn’t change the fact that he’s a pretty mobile character. He can easily punish fireballs from midscreen with Mountain Raze and if your reactions are not that great u can still use ex mountain raze which is invincible from frame 1.
To me Paul feels like a very solid shoto character who just plays very different, I don’t think there is anything subpar about him, besides his walkspeed.
You’re willingly ignore the important differences it seems. Namely, Footsie relevant normals.
Paul c.mk 7F
Paul s.mk 10F
Paul s.hp 12F
Paul s.hk 15F
combine that with his still slow walkspeed and very slow backwalk speed and you have perfect subpar footsie utility. He is no cripple, but not good either, and that’s all I’m saying.
and in the air you have
j.mk 9F
j.mp 9F
j.hp 10F
j.hk 10F
the only fast a2a normal are j.lp and j.lk with 5F, the former being utterly useless for the most part and the later having little reach (still the best a2a normal since it’s active forever and the fastest).
Hence my comment “slow normals”.
The distance plays a great role for a front dash, more then the overall frames (to a degree). Just look at Cody, Bison and Makoto. And Ryu’s forward dash is 17F while covering greater distance. It’s clearly better. More importantly, Ryu can cancel his c.hk, which makes it superior for CADC, since it has a tremendous amount of block stun.
Ryu also has a better walk speed 80% in comparison to 53% and Backwalk speed of 60% to 40%. And he has the abbility to alter his jump arc (and way better a2a). I dunno what you try to showcase here, but Paul’s mobillity is kinda ass in comparison to Ryu’s.
I mean you can’t think that he can keep up with Rolento, Akuma, Juri, Balrog, Vega, Guile, Chun, Cammy, Bison, Raven, Steve, Nina…
You overvalue my statement. I just said he is lacking in mobility, not that Paul is an immovable character. He can certainly get around; others can just better. Admittedly, quite a few also worse. I mean you even agree that his walkspeed is subpar, which is part of the “mobility”. I only call a character mobile when he has either a long reaching dash (Makoto, Cody) AND\OR Walkspeed OR above average of both in combination - Paul has neither of those 3 options.
Raze vs cross ups is btw very legit - great escape tool.
I’dn’t call Paul a shoto at all tbh. I don’t see any similarity. @_@
I’m pretty sure I’ve mentioned c.MK and st.MK ^^'
I don’t consider far st.HP and far st.HK as one of Paul main normals, that’s why I didn’t mention those. Not only that, you can’t even compare it to Ryu or Ken because Ryu his st.HK is used as an AA, Ken’s is used as a footsie tool, and Paul’s is just ASS imo.
The distance between Ryu and Paul is hardly noticeable, it’s literally 1 toe. I didn’t find any data of his forward dash, so I looked at his data from SF4 and assumed it would be the same. If they have the same startup then there’s no denying that Ryu’s is simply better.
Paul can’t cancel his cr.HK so Ryu would always be better to do CADC with, especially if u take in account that Ryu his cr.HK is as fast as Paul his cr.MK.
I never tried comparing his mobility to Ryu’s, I only compared their normals and their dashes. That’s why I put them all in separate paragraphs.
To me mobility is not limited to walkspeed and front dash. I look at other factors too, and when I look at Paul, I see a character who can close the gap between him and the opponent in a blink of an eye. 1 second he’s here and the other he’s there (I’m a bit exaggerating of course).
You might even think I’m crazy but I consider Paul more mobile than Guile and Ryu. I played against an Alisa player with my Ryu and Guile, and despite the faster normals and walkspeed I have with those two, I couldn’t get to the preferred positions that I wanted to. But when I switched to Paul however, I could jump in more easily, mountain raze thru her fireballs, mortar punch from mid screen to whiff punish, and cr.MK CADC to keep up the pressure. Those are MY main reasons for thinking that Paul is a mobile character, not to a degree like Cammy/Ibuki/Rolento of course but definitely more mobile than your average character in a fighting game.
http://forums.eventhubs.com/viewtopic.php?f=210&t=10700
Paul Phoenix is a slow moving hard hitting machine with Dan-like normals.
This is the first sentence from that thread.
Read a couple of paragraphs and you’ll probably understand why I think of Paul as a shoto character who plays differently.
I mentioned s.hp and s.hk because they are potential footsie normals. their start up is what’s keeping them from being very usable. Ryu has c.mk, c.hk and Paul has c.mk, s.hk, s.hp, s.mk as footsie normals, but only c.mk is somewhat decent out of those, and that is still inferior to Ryu’s in every aspect. That is what I mean.^^
I do consider such moves too as mobility. However, I only consider Raze partially here, and it’s not enough to warrant that I call Paul a “mobile character”. It just doesn’t make up for his dash distance and Walkspeed. It’s no divekick or air Jaguar Kick. Yang has a move similar to Raze, and I wouldn’t say Yang is mobile just because of his rolling kicks at all. EX Ruffian alone doesn’t make Cody mobile either, nor does EX Green Fist or Cammy’s spin move etc. Now, if you could use Mortar during a jump, (kinda like Kanji’s dive grab in P4A), then I’d say it adds mobility a great deal. - btw that would be so frigging awesome; now I totally want that. xD Screw balance!
We seem to have different definitions about it. I get your point, but there is enough other characters that are more mobile than Paul, making the statement “he is below average” a genuinely one since the competition is so vast imo.
I still don’t see any connection. Dan-like normals is not a compliment either. x) Tho, it’s actually somewhat fitting.
Again, might be a definition case, but to me a Shoto has a Shoryuken, a Fireball, a specific move set and a Tatsu to say the least. Only Ryu, Ken, E.Ryu and Akuma are “Shotos” to me - at least in SF4 and SFxT. Neither Sagat nor Dan nor Sakura are shotos imo. Even Oni isn’t a real shoto, even tho he features the iconic moves.
Well in 2012 I’d heartily agree that Ryu has better normals than Paul, but now in 2013 I’d say it’s pretty even.
They nerfed Ryu his cr.MP and cr.MK really bad, that’s why I was having a hard time with him in the Alisa mu, I couldn’t get my feet to connect with her limbs, and she was keeping me out with fireballs. I even asked on the Ryu thread what to do about it, but the only response I’ve gotten is someone whining how bad Ryu has become -_-
Anyway Paul his cr.MK and st.MK goes further than Ryu his cr.MK, I don’t know if it also goes further than Ryu his cr.HK tho (haven’t tested that out yet), but that’s partially the reason why I had an easier time with Paul againt Alisa. Guile his cr.MK goes a bit further than Paul I think, but I couldn’t use it to CADC with and get in at Alisa cause I need a db charge first.
They nerfed other characters their normals and boostchains, and that’s why I think Paul has an easier time dealing with footsies, before the patch u would lose cause they had faster normals and would simply boost chain and stay safe. Now they can’t do that anymore, plus the fact that Paul CAN use mortar punch and sway, makes him a bit better to play footsie with. JB the player who won Savage Saturday was able to land A LOT of Ex sways for example ^^’
The mobility part is probably just a miscommunication, and after thinking about it, you are probably right. I didn’t put much thought about the other characters in the game and was mainly comparing him with SF4 and the shotos. But there are A LOT of characters in SFxTK who are very mobile, u just didn’t see them that often because most of them were slept on.
Well I even consider Paul a shoto in Tekken 
People call Dan/Sakura and even Gouken shoto clones, probably because they have shoto normals and somewhat shoto specials.
My reason for calling Paul a ‘shoto character who plays differently’ is because he has your typical shoto normals and BnB’s (no rekka, command grab or divekicks). But since he’s missing a fireball you can’t really play him like a shoto.
Paul has eyebrows that make fireballs obsolete.
I’m glad that I have Guile when facing Alisa. I feel that it’s in Guile favor IF you play extremely lame. I think Cammy MU is a lot more worse. Her dive kick makes it impossible to rely on c.hp, and if you want d charge for anti air flash kick, you can’t boom and build meter.
Guile can’t cancel his c.mk into anything but a chain, so he can’t CADC it anyway. his CADC is actually bad to begin with (off a c.mp for instance) since it has 13F of forced delay. The option that Guile can convert his c.mk into decent damage through the launcher system in SFxT makes him a way more rewarding character tho. I need to regain my ability to hitconfirm a raw c.mk. Kinda do that again with s.hk (incredible good normal despite the start up of 13F since its reach is ridiculous) and can pull it off most of the time, given a good connection.
Started doing a Guile Combo thread today. Will be ready in a few days since it has no priority.
I have a lot of Guile combos myself so I can definitely contribute to the thread.
I too think it’s in Guile his favor if u outlame her, if u rush her down you need to be better than the other player cause Guile doesn’t has the necessary tools to rush her down.
That was a noobmove, I totally forgot that you can’t cancel Guile his cr.MK, I was so caught up with all the cr.MKs that I totally forgot about it.
Well if u always FK with UB, you’ll never lose the boom charge. I always try to end everything with B or UB, even in AE when I’m hitconfirming with cr.lk and finishing it with st.lk, I hold UB (you obviously can’t hold back or else you do his step knee).
Well from last time we played I noticed that u did Guile his boostchain combos from way too close, It could be because of lag, but u can hit confirm with cr.MK into st.HK and still stay safe (against most of the cast) if u do it from max distance. His cr.MK is seriously one of the best normals in the game, u can even catch neutral jumps with it 
A simple cr.MK x St.HK hitconfirm into Launcher, can easily lead to 400-500 damage with Paul.
Happy to know, u didn’t drop him btw.
Well now that I can actually have decent matches on XBL, I don’t see a reason to drop him. I considered which other chracter I could play, and only came up with Cody. But Cody feels just “off” to me, even pre v2013. I dunno, just doesn’t hit my nerve. I’m usually dead character loyal, and I wouldn’t even had picked up Guile in the first place if Cody would have been in the initial game. I don’t even like Guile in all other games. I picked him because I didn’t wanted to learn 2 new characters, and wanted to test Paul online, so I picked a character I know how to play. xD Cammy, and all the others felt very different to me and I refuse to play Ryu \ Ken \ Akuma. In SFxT his playstyle also somewhat grew on me.
I mean a raw c.mk, not c.mk~s.hk. Even tho it might look save from a distance, there are not many characters that can NOT punish it actually. It’s like -37F or something (dunno if it’s correct, I will search for this). It’s a bad habit that I still do it sometimes now, and since you get away with it against a good portion of players online, it kinda sticks. I need to stop using it entirely unless it’s a good guess; or the player doesn’t punish it. Hit confirming raw c.mk consistently is difficult tho. You really have to look out for it to be able to make it.
No boom => no jump => no hitting flash kick
No boom => no zoning => limited options
No down charge => no moving => greatly²³²³ limited options
it’s a mess against cammy. I can’t even air grab her dive kick consistently. need to figure out Guile more. I’ll actually use him in the lab from now on, since it seems I stick with him.
I always do DB => UB. Even with non-charge characters I hold immediately db when I jump. xD
Call me a noob, but just yesterday I found a new combo after a launcher tag in with Guile. Previously I never did a launcher with Paul really, so I never cared much, but that changed with his HK Shredder => Relaunch. The f.mk starter is too risky imo. f.lk, c.mp, c.mp xx Flash Kick. duh I never even tried before! xD f.lk can be mashed and does with 50 damage only 10 less then the way more timing specific f.mk.
You really should get a cheap xbox btw 
Look what I just found:
I think I might need to get on the Paul train.
Choo choo motherfucker.