AE v2013 Deejay wishlist

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
141

I should be able to draft something detailed up in terms of changes/justifications once we solidify what we want a bit more.

Short form:

Biggest generic weaknesses across all matchups:

  • no option to beat crouching meaties (w/OS) on wakeup that isn’t Super/Ultra 2.
    Potential fixes: Adjustments to EX MGU invulnerability/startup, OR 1 hit armor to EX MGU. Adjusting Upkick hitbox to hit crouching for one to two versions of Upkicks. Alter invulnerability on a version of Sobat to do this.

  • 5f cr.lk makes crouch teching more difficult and restricts empty jump mixups.
    Potential fix: Adjust startup to 4f.

  • Gaps in his anti-air spacings allow guaranteed jumpins if Dee Jay is not charged.
    Potential fix: Lower hurtbox of cr.hp.

Matchup specific issues:

  • Some characters fall out of the last hit of barraged Machine Gun Uppers.
    Potential fixes: Extend forward hitbox slightly, or add pursuit property after first hit.

  • Dash Ultra 2 is not consistent on characters with small falling hurtboxes.
    Potential fixes: Increase Dee Jay’s forward dash distance, adjust the hitbox for the first frame of Ultra 2.

  • Ultra 2’s maraca animation deprives players of post-ultra setups and actively endangers them for landing it in some matchups (e.g. Gief with U2).
    Potential fix: Remove the animation when the ultra does not result in a KO, or make the animation cancellable.

  • In some matchups (Guile, Cody, Vega), LK Sobat is not a viable pressuring tool because of being -5 on block, but Dee Jay needs to get in.
    Potential fix: Adjust blockstun value resulting in -3 disadvantage on block.

Playstyle issues:

  • current state of cr.lk restricts playstyle, as listed above with potential fix.

  • The current design of Rolling Sobat forces players to make an uninteresting choice between extra damage and completely relinquishing pressure, or a soft knockdown.
    Potential fix: Adding a soft knockdown to MK/HK Rolling Sobat maintains the damage/setup dynamic, but allows Dee Jay to increase his overall combo damage. With different spacings by strength, these moves allow a range of possible setups as well as offers the player choices for resetting spacing. This would represent a buff, but would also make Dee Jay more interesting to play in terms of the choices players would have to make with him.

  • Counterpoking with Dee Jay is bad because of a combination of few active frames and poor hitboxes on his normals.
    Potential fix: Extend hitboxes of cr.mp/hp, possibly swap a recovery frame for an active one.

General buffs:

  • Knee Shot’s hit/hurtboxes can use small improvements to help Dee Jay’s pressure game.

  • Ultra 1 has too little forward range to be broadly useful as an anti-fireball ultra, and starts up too slowly to punish some fireballs on reaction.
    Potential fix: Increase forward range and the speed with which Dee Jay covers it, adjust startup.

142

I’m ready to screen shot (and repost here) all the nonsense that the non Dee Jay players are going to complain about. If you want some form of entertainment, go over to the Capcom balance changes forums and read some of the suggestions for the other characters. Some of them are highly entertaining.

143

add both hits of hk sobat not connecting and it being -1 on hit.

mk being +1 on hit is worthless as well.

don’t know what’s a fair fix to that w/o making deejay too strong.

But then gain ibuki gets a hard knockdown on almost all of her specials.

hmmm, anything we’re missing?

144

Do we still need an overhead? Our rushdown game is pretty much- Frame Traps or a kissing distance throw
Or
Improving Air slash?

145

I’d like to have an animation for ultra 1, just so it looks nicer :smiley: In addition to that, if the non ex up kicks auto corrected to hit cross ups, that would greatly improve his wake up game. Having a set up for ultra 1(other than canceling from super) would also be great.

146

Also the little maracas taunt at the end of ultra 2 takes way too long. If you could shorten it, or just make it so you can cancel the animation it would become a lot safer to perform the ultra. Oh, and make light dread kicks safe on block, like Dictator’s light knee press.

147

What do we think in general about a throw range buff?

148

Am I allowed to share my own input too? Kappa

149

It would be nice if the the throw range was buffed to a reasonable range nothing extreme.

150

lk and mk upkicks autocorrect well enough.

U1 animation would be a waste

idk about throw range with that walk speed, might be asking too much.

It just sucks having that great walk speed, but having ass buttons

151

3 Frame EX-upkick too broken to ask for?

152

Knut; yes, please.

153

Ya i forgot about the walk speed dose make up for the lack of range. I do want close fierce to be fixed. I feel like there hidden potential that is missed out on because of the way it is now.

154

3F upkick won’t matter if you still can’t hit crouching.

I actually like 4f upkick. I can tell if my opponent is baiting/safe jumping/ or just being plain old sloppy.

I’ve had ppl tell me i always upkick, but i land it 90% of the time when i’m not trolling.

155

I’ll try to keep this short.

General Game changes:
Get rid of unlockables.

Deejay Changes:
Cr.Lp reduce to 3f from 4f. Make cr lp a true block string.

Cr.Lk reduce to 4f from 5f.

Fix Double Rolling Sobat so that if the first hit connects the second one is guaranteed. (Technical term Pursuit properties?)

Second hit of Double Rolling Sobat causes soft knock down (MK and HK versions).

Increase EX-MGU invulnerable frames to 6 from 4, but get rid of push back so if bated we can be punished.

U1 fixed so if the first hit connects the rest hit.

Lk Double Rolling Sobat airborne properties from Super.

Give him an average throw range.

Reasoning for changes:
Deejay is mainly a zoning and frame trap character. Fireball zoning is not very strong in SF4 with so many ways to get through and around fireballs.

The cr.lp change would help deejay compete with other characters whit 3f normals in footcies. Same thing for cr.lk.

The soft knock on hit of the Double Rolling Sobat (mk and hk versions). This would allow DJ to keep up a pressure game after a Double Rolling Sobat combo finisher. This works in two ways:
First gives Deejay time to setup his attack on the knocked down opponent with ambiguous crossups and tick throw setups/frame traps setups.
Second gives him time to re-zone his opponent.
The Double Rolling Sobat is negative on block so we can’t just throw it out whenever we want. The light version still retains its usefulness in going over low pokes in footcies. Along with the soft knock down we are also not giving up damage by using the lk version which dose 90 damage compared to the 110 and 140 (un-scaled numbers).

Increase invulnerable frames on EX-MGU would greatly help with Deejays lack of wakeup game.

Again with the general throw range increase, would help Deejay with his pressure game/frame trap/re-zone game.

General retooling of his normal hitboxes and hurt boxes would be nice but you guys know the specifics of that better than me.

Please give feedback on my proposed changes as I will be making a post on the Capcom unity forums. I feel like we need to give a unified stand on the changes and the reasoning for those changes.

156

This buff will still make EXMGU useless. There will still be 6 additional frames were we could be hit or thrown out of its start-up.

Ideas / Fixes

  • Invulnerable frames until the first hitbox (Basicly a Cody’s EX ZONK)
    -Faster startup (unlikely option)
    -Armour (The move could be used like barlog trying to get out of pressure with a EX Dashpunch (still weak to throws)

This move is bad version of Rose’s EX Spiral and look how much that move sucks.

157

ex soul spiral is not a bad move to mash against heavier/slower buttons, but ass against good players.

i wouldn’t mind if ex mgu was like that. i just want a chance to not get raped on wake up by the whole cast the same exact way for free.

armor is ass, but don’t forget ex mgu leads to ultra so i don’t see them making it too strong.

i’d say make hk upkicks beat mids and lows a good choice. ok damage and doesn’t lead to an ultra.

I would love a better throw range, but to be fair i don’t think he should have it. I think less pushback on blocked normals would make him better off.

There’s a range where cl. mp doesn’t hit certain characters crouching. I remember it happening against bison, but still something that needs to be fixed.

158

Getting the airborne state on lk sobat isn’t as good as having it go over all lows like it used to.

I don’t see how giving ex MGU less push block helps.

Dee Jay has frame traps?

159

Ok perhaps I am misunderstanding on how frame data/active frames work, but let’s take Ryu’s cr. Lp as an example.

Ryu knocks Deejay down with a hard knock down and on my wakeup timing preforms a meaty cr.lp which has 3f startup 2f active and 7f recovery. Now if I wake up with EX-MGU I beat his meaty cr.lp This is my understanding on what is going on, please correct me if I am wrong.

The reason why I beat this meaty cr.lp is because it has 2 active frames and I have 4 frames of involve on EX-MGU. So going by the definition of a meaty attack from the SRK wiki:

“A Meaty Attack is an attack that is timed so that the enemy will get up into it on the very first frame after being knocked down. In other words, if the enemy tries to perform a move when they get up against your Meaty Attack and he/she mistimes it so that they do not perform a Reversal, they will get hit the instant they get up.”

So back to my example Ryu times the meaty to hit Deejay on the first frame from wakeup and it’s Ryu’s first active frame from his cr.lp, but Deejay Wakesup with EX-MGU which has 4f of invincibility going frame by frame Ryu’s second active frames goes though DeeJay’s second EX-MGU involve frame and then Ryu hit’s his 7f of recovery. While DeeJay goes though 3f and 4f of involve and so on. I have done this to Ryu players who try to apply pressure on DeeJays wakeup with jab’s and shorts.

Now same scenario with Ryu’s cr.mp which is 4f startup 4f active and 8f recovery. At frame perfect timing it should be on the 4-th active frame of ryu’s cr.mp (Frame 8) Deejay should be out of involve frames, my guess here is that this causes Ryu’s to be safe if it’s frame perfect. Ryu has 8 recovery frames and Deejays EX-MGU comes out on frame 13 as its 12 frames startup.

Now that’s a frame perfect timing so my guess is that in most cases Ryu’s time their meaty hit’s on Deejays 1st or 2nd Involve frame which would then Stuff our EX-MGU.

Again this is my understanding on how the game works. So with 6f of involve we would get a bigger window to get though characters active frame meaty’s, no?

Maybe it should be more but I don’t see Capcom adjusting frame data more that 3 or 4 frames.

Looking forward to your guys teaching my ignorant ass :slight_smile:

160

@Spidercarnage Your right.

EXMgu is great at countering moves with sizable amounts of recovery. (Thats good)
The buff you suggested make it EVEN better at doing this. (Thats good)
But it doesn’t fix the problem that 2xcr.lp will still out right beat it when used as a reversal :frowning: Still bad wakeup)

And if this Ryu player knew 2xcr.lp would outright beat EXMGU why would he even attemp cr.mp meaty.

>First jab passes through Deejay Second jab hits Deejay before active frames come out
>Jab has hit, free combo.

or

>First jab passes through Deejay. They wait and block EXMGU.
>You are now -5 right next to them and have wasted a bar.

Don’t think they give us a throw range buff with that walk speed

Thats tru, but if you mess up at least you’d be air reset than to eat a combo.

EXHeadbutt leads to U1 and look how great they made that :confused:
12frame startup
1~15f Invincible, 12f~ airborne, charge 55f